Topic: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic

[JonLeung]

I can see why this isn't going and it's because everyone's probably expecting me to make a closer-to-definite list of the dungeons in order and their items.  I guess once we have that basic template it will be easier to move forward.  I'll try to get on that ASAP.



Plus, holidays never seem to have the free time you'd think you'd have - I for one did a lot of work but none of it was on this project.  Hopefully we'll get a start in January so that we're not as pressed for time as last year.



BTW, I think I asked Revned and TerraEsperZ this but saved game files for OoA and OoS would be helpful.  Does zophar.net have some?



EDIT: Yup, it does, never mind.

[JonLeung]

I'm thinking "mole claws" would be great for digging through obstacles, a likely item for the foresty stage.



Anyway, I was looking at the inventories of OoS and OoA.  Does OoS have one less piece of equipment?  Is it because one of the dungeon items is the Mermaid Suit which falls into the second inventory screen as an automatic-equip item?  But that's in Ages.  I'm confused.



Oracle Of Ages:





Oracle Of Seasons:

[marioman]

OK, so I have done some more thinking about the name.  I have just about worn out my thesaurus trying to find a word that is synonymous with hours and sounds more like the other names.  Here are the synonyms of "time" from thesaurus.com:



age, allotment, bit, bout, chronology, clock, continuance, date, day, duration, epoch, era, eternity, extent, future, generation, go*, hour, infinity, instance, instant, interval, juncture, lastingness, life, life span, lifetime, moment, month, occasion, pace, past, point, present, season, second, shift, space, span, spell, stage, stint, stretch, tempo, term, ticks, tide, tour, trick, turn, week, while, year



I figure that I will post these to see if they provoke any ideas.  As you can see, hours, moments, and days are listed.  Also listed are age and season, so I would think that this is the right place to look.



Now, I was doing some more logical thinking to try and find the pattern in Ages/Seasons, and I may have at least narrowed it down a little.  Here is the scenarios that occur in the other games:



Ages:



-Link travels between the past and present.

-This travel would span years.

-A collection of years can be called an age.



Seasons:



-Link travels between the different seasons.  (This usage of seasons is weather related.)

-This travel would span months.

-A collection of months can be called a season. (This usage of season refers to a time period.)



Using this format and the thesaurus entry, there is only one entry that will make sense:



-Link travels between day and night.

-This travel would span hours.

-A collection of hours can be called a day.



Yes, that's right, Oracle of Days.  I know that I have kicking around quite a few candidates, but this one makes the most sense when some thought is put forth.  



What do you guys think?  I think that it sounds more like the other games than "hours" does.

[JonLeung]

I guess we'll go with "Days" if the majority of us like it.  It's OUR project after all, not mine.  Or at least it will end up being a shared thing, so we (or most of us) will have to like the title.



However, count me out for "Days".  I see it as Link travelling between ages and between seasons, so "Hours" still makes more sense to me.  Especially since the dynamic is between night and day, not between this day and another day.  



(I guess the confusion arises by saying "day and night", where "day" alone can also mean a full cycle that includes the night.  You know, like City Mouse/Country Mouse...when cities are in countries, etc.  >_<)



You can continue thinking about that...I'll have the items and dungeons basically decided soon so we can do the work of assembling the maps.  The title is something to keep in mind, of course, but we don't need it right away or can change it easily down the line.



That said, my vote is still for "hours".

[marioman]

JonLeung said:



(I guess the confusion arises by saying "day and night", where "day" alone can also mean a full cycle that includes the night. You know, like City Mouse/Country Mouse...when cities are in countries, etc. >_<)



True, but the same ambiguity exists for "age" and "season".  The word "age" can be used to refer to how old something is (the person's age is...) or a time period (the Bronze Age).  Likewise, "season" can mean a period of time (football season) or a three month period that exhibits similar weather conditions (the season of winter).  So, if the issue is that "day" can mean daytime (the sun comes out during the day) and also mean a 24 hour span that includes daytime and nighttime (the event will happen in a couple of days), then that ambiguity is nothing new.



The thing about the name of the games is that the words are given in the plural.  This reduces the confusion a little.  There is no way that that the age of an object can be pluralized (the person?s ages are?), and, when referring to a season, usually it is not understood as multiple events (football seasons).  By the same token, there cannot be two consecutive daytimes (the sun comes out during the days).



Bottom line - I would not worry about the dual meaning of the word ?day? because the same issue exists with the other games.

[JonLeung]

I did some more thinking about dungeons and items and this is what I came up with.







Items:



-counting replacements, upgrades, and disregarding auto-equipment, Link has 15 items, same as in Oracle Of Ages)

-items I'm unsure of what they're called have square brackets ( [ ] ) on them



Staple equipment found in both other Oracle games:

-Sword

-Shield (will be replaced by Mirror Shield late in the game)

-Bombs

-Bombchus

-Boomerang

-Seed Satchel

-Shovel

-Biggoron's Sword

-Flute

-Zora's Flippers (second screen, auto-equip)



Dungeon items:

1. Roc's Feather

X. [time manipulator]

2. [seed shooter-type thing]

3. Power Bracelet

4. Mole Mitts

5. Spinner

6. [teleporting key thingy] (second screen, auto-equip)

 -allows Link to use teleporting tiles

7. Mirror Shield

8. Leever Drill (upgrade of Mole Mitts)



Dungeons:

EDIT: With the possible exception of the Hourglass Palace (which I will probably do myself), there will not be two versions (day/night) of the dungeons - just one.  The time of day can only be switched outside, and the dungeons will have something that will make them inaccessible in the other time of the day than what is intended.

1. (don't know yet)

-requires: nothing

-found: Roc's Feather



2. Flower Gardens

-requires: Roc's Feather and [time manipulator] to switch to daytime (flower petals need to be jumped on to reach the entrance, dungeon is originally in a nighttime area)

-found: [seed shooter-type thing]

-a forest-like dungeon; the time of day affects the plants

-day time = giant flowers are open / night time = giant flowers are closed

-plant enemies like Deku Babas and Deku Scrubs act differently depending on day/night



3. Beach Cave

-requires: [seed-shooter-type thing] and daytime (perhaps something needs to be shot to open the path, and tides are low in the day)

-found: Power Bracelet

-a water dungeon; the time of day affects the tide

-night time = high tide / day time = low tide (that's not how it works in real life but just go with it)

-water level puzzles like those found in various Zelda games



4. Hourglass Palace

-requires: Power Bracelet (to lift something blocking the way)

-found: Mole Mitts

-a desert dungeon; the floors are each laid out somewhat circular-like, with the top and bottom floors being larger than those nearer to the center floor, just like an hourglass

-the floors will switch from day to night: top-to-bottom will become bottom-to-top (stairs will change accordingly) and provide new puzzle elements (pits lead to different areas, shifting sand floors will reverse direction, etc.)



5. Clock Tower

-requires: Mole Mitts (to dig through something blocking the way like sand or dirt, perhaps)

-found: Spinner

-a mechanical dungeon

-a Spinner item, like that found in Twilight Princess (if you didn't know, it serves as a hover-top, a high-speed wall-wheel thing, and also as a gear for operating mechanical devices) would be the item here, which would give full control to the dungeon's clockwork and be used for mechanical puzzles in future dungeons



6. Vampire's Crypt

-requires: Spinner (the crypt could be sealed with a mechanical door that requires a Spinner to turn its gears)

-found: [teleporting key thingy]

-a "dark" dungeon; the time of day affects the amount of light, but mostly night-themed

-nocturnal enemies (werewolves, bats, vampires), including the boss, who will fight differently depending on if it's day or night



7. Temple of Light

-requires: [teleporting key thingy] (no door, no entry except via a teleporter)

-found: Mirror Shield

-a "light" dungeon; the time of day affects the amount of light, but mostly day-themed

-sunlight-based puzzles, the Mirror Shield is found here and required for some of the puzzles

-probably whatever puzzle elements are in the Boktai games



8. Excavation Site

-requires: Mirror Shield (a light puzzle opens the ruins within)

-found: Leever Drill

-??? (description)

-Leever Drill is required for drilling through stone to solve this dungeon



---



So, we're probably almost ready to start, eh?  We just need to fill in a few blanks but we could probably start on some dungeons right away.  Unless anyone has any major objections to the items and dungeons so far...

[Revned]

I hate to do this to you, but I'm going to have to leave this project. To tell you the truth, I've lost interest. I'll look forward to seeing them if you guys manage to finish them, but I'm starting to feel pressure like I was last year. Maybe if the due date was farther out I'd feel differently, but I really don't think I'll be able to motivate myself to do this and focus on school at the same time. These require more thought than a straight mapping project like SotN, which interferes with my academic life less. I'm sorry, but I just can't force myself to take part in a project I've lost interest in like I did last year.

[JonLeung]

Ouch.  



Well, that's sad to hear.  You'll get some recognition since we'll likely be gutting your maps for this.  (That reminds me, if I ever get around to that Projects page I should make mention of Geminiman who worked on the MMX game maps while we did last year's...)



I might as well keep your access here in case you do want to chime in with anything.



Anyway, I just realised how redundant both the shovel and the Mole Mitts are.  Though I was thinking that the Mole Mitts would break down barriers in your way, not ground that you walk over.  And to not be redundant with bombs, they'd have to be unbombable.



EDIT: DAMMIT!  Or, wait, is this a bad thing?  Something triggered in my memory about the Mole Mitts.  Apparently they are in Minish Cap!  That's why I was thinking of them!  They seemed so familiar.  Oh, well, we'll probably keep them.

[Revned]

Alright, I'll keep watching your progress in case I change my mind.

[JonLeung]

I've simplified the Clockwork Temple into the Clock Tower, which I guess I'll call dibs on.



And I hope TerraEsperZ doesn't step down too, and I will see about getting others involved since it's not too late for them to jump in.  I thought mephea was here...  I already PMed Grizzly, maybe I ought to email him instead.  Too bad osrevad's still gone for another year.  Zeric already opted out.  Oh, I guess I'll try KingKuros...he did over half of Super Mario Bros. 3...



Who else is capable and willing, do you think?

[RT 55J]

The Clock Tower sounds like a rip off of Castlevania tbqh.



The first dungeon could be a Ice dungeon. The water would freeze during the night and melt during the day. Most of the water would be shallow, but Roc's Feather could be used to jump across some of the deep parts.

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!

[marioman]

RT 55J Said:

The Clock Tower sounds like a rip off of Castlevania tbqh.



The first dungeon could be a Ice dungeon. The water would freeze during the night and melt during the day. Most of the water would be shallow, but Roc's Feather could be used to jump across some of the deep parts.

---

Dot? Dot. Dot!

I agree.  Vampires don't sound very Zelda-ish to me.  I think that the clock theme would be believable, but it would definitely seem like a Castlevania rip-off if you combined vampires AND a clock tower.



The ice level idea sounds good.

[JonLeung]

For the Clock Tower, it would have lots of gears, but I wasn't thinking of jumping on pendulums or on the toothy parts of gears so I don't think it would look like any Castlevania clock tower, at least the way I was thinking of designing it.  It wouldn't even be like the clock in Majora's Mask, except maybe on the ouside.  Due to the nature of a Game Boy Zelda game, dungeons are more likely to be confused with each other than with something from another game, IMO.



And if not vampires, then how about Vires (the guys that split into two Keese when hit, they're very vampire-like) or some other nocturnal enemy.  Wizzrobe's Den?  Gibdo's Lair?  Or some kind of nocturnal theme, at least.



I had the same idea about a possible ice dungeon and was debating about it since it seems more like a seasonal thing.  :/  Is it covered in Seasons at all?



I emailed Grizzly and KingKuros to help out.  I admit I may have been biting more than I can chew when I blurted out that I would do this myself if I had to.  :/  I hope TerraEsperZ doesn't bail, and where is mephea?

[marioman]

There you go!  Use nocturnal Zelda enemies.  That would be much better.  



Actually, I would think that the Clock Tower would be OK as long as there aren't any Castlevania-looking enemies in it.



The ice in the level could be like the morning frost/dew.  That would be more day-themed than season-themed.

[marioman]

Double post!  For I bear with me the Essences of Light:



1. Silver Moonbeam

2. Vivid Spectrum

3. Radiant Daybreak

4. Burning Flame

5. Shining Reflection

6. Warm Sunshine

7. Frozen Aurora

8. Glowing Prism



What do you think?  The story could be that the Maku Tree is wilting because it is trapped in darkness.  The Essences of Light could be used to revive it.



Feel free to make better suggestions.