Topic: The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Hours (April Fools' 2008 Project) - Brainstorming Topic

[JonLeung]

RT 55J, to be honest, I don't think we want too much backstory behind an individual dungeon.  As with all Zelda games, there is typically a narrative that includes Link collecting something, one of several similar items, or a part of a larger object, which is at the end of each dungeon after defeating the boss.  And usually that's pretty much it.



Okay, maybe some dungeons do have at least some story now that I think about it, but consider that we're not really going to be able to tell such narratives easily through just maps.  If you (or whoever) wants to make an excavation site, I suppose you could have some NPCs (non-player characters) that look like they belong in such an area somewhere around or near the dungeon's entrance, but that's of course assuming that we decide to include NPCs on the overworld as well.



And an outside area has to "fit" in the overworld; I think it'd be confusing to have something like Zora's Domain in A Link To The Past considering this is a game that won't ever be played by someone.  But of course each dungeon must be in some area, so there will be some outside area to play around with.  That will likely be used for item-specific obstacles that suggest the "order" of the dungeons.



Before I hide away this topic I need to know who's involved so I can give them exclusive access (somehow...I'm still not sure).



I'm guessing the roster sits as follows:

Myself (doing a lot of stuff)

Revned (doing at least one dungeon, part of the overworld, and maybe more depending)

TerraEsperZ (doing at least one dungeon, interested in the overworld, and maybe more depending)

mephea (expressed keen interest to be involved)

RT 55J (this was his idea initially - and he is interested, but will he provide more than ideas?)



You guys can clarify your stance if you like, and it isn't set in stone anyway.  And even if RT 55J only wants to provide ideas, that's fine, and he'll be in on it too.



marioman says he doesn't have the skills to contribute (though when I get around to the projects page I should at least mention that he suggested the name, if we do decide to stick with Oracle Of Hours, that is)

Zeric says he won't (but he wishes us luck).



Did I miss anybody?



I was thinking about asking bustin98 for one specific thing in particular.  Is there anybody we need to recruit, or do you think this small enough number is good?

[RT 55J]

RT 55J (this was his idea initially - and he is interested, but will he provide more than ideas?)



I'll try.

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Dot? Dot. Dot!

[marioman]

JonLeung said:



marioman says he doesn't have the skills to contribute (though when I get around to the projects page I should at least mention that he suggested the name, if we do decide to stick with Oracle Of Hours, that is)



No credit needed.  You guys are the ones doing all of the work.



I have been thinking about the name.  The other oracle games had more rustic-sounding names.  I mean, they could have just called them Oracle of  Years, Oracle of Months, etc.  Instead, they used Ages, Seasons, etc.  If we could find something more rustic, I think that it would be more realistic.  I am thinking about something like Oracle of Moments or something like that.  This may just be too picky, but it we can come up with something better, then let's by all means use it.

[TerraEsperZ]

How about the Oracle of Light? You could come up with the basic concept that the big bad guy this time is trying to steal all the light from the region (whatever we end up naming it) because the Darkness will then grant him incredible powers of evil or something cheesy like that. Thus when it's daylight, the world is safer and more friendly while during the night, horrible things come out to play and even the land changes, being affected by the evil in the air...



Well, you get the idea.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me

[JonLeung]

TerraEsperZ Said:

How about the Oracle of Light? You could come up with the basic concept that the big bad guy this time is trying to steal all the light from the region (whatever we end up naming it) because the Darkness will then grant him incredible powers of evil or something cheesy like that. Thus when it's daylight, the world is safer and more friendly while during the night, horrible things come out to play and even the land changes, being affected by the evil in the air...



Well, you get the idea.

Yes, I get the idea.  I got it, in fact.  Almost a month ago.



That is, if you replace "steal all the light from the region" with "merge the Twilight Realm and Hyrule".



>_>



I wish words like "day" and "light" weren't so one-sided.  You can say "Seasons" instead of naming them all, and you can say "Ages" without saying "past and present".  (It's like how you can say "parents" or "siblings", but there's no easier way to say "uncles and aunts".  Or something.)



I like Hours still, or at least more than the others.  Besides the fact that "Hours" is simpler, calling Farore the Oracle Of Light sounds so much more "ultimate" than the other two, and if anyone were to be the Oracle of Light, it should be Nayru, as in (highlight to read spoilers) both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, Zelda wields the Light Arrows.  Apparently wisdom relates to the light.

[Revned]

I don't like either, frankly. Marioman is right, though, "hours" sounds too simple. I'll try to think of something else, but it's not very important at the moment.

[TerraEsperZ]

Oh well, it was worth a try. To me, it was "Hours" that sounded nonsensical compared to "Seasons" and "Ages"; "Light", although too generic and already used quite a bit in the various Zelda games, was the only thing I could come up with that felt epic and could be related to the mechanics of day and night.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me

[Revned]

Yes, but as Jon said, it sounds a little too epic. It's on the right track, though.



Jon, you should probably hide this topic now that we know who's interested....

[JonLeung]

Oh, Revned, you didn't notice?  This topic is in a board all its own, which should be hidden to all except those who already expressed interest.



It definitely needs a name, and it most definitely has to be "Oracle Of _____", but it's something we can figure out later.



While we're talking about things that we can worry about later, I might as well show you the thing I was messing around with for fun on the first day that this idea came about.  I know it's unimportant right now, though ideally, if it could ever look right, I would like to include it as one of several "screenshots" for other Zelda web sites to help us perpetuate the joke:







I'd held off on showing it because it is far from complete.  Looks like ass.  (The original image is here.)  But I still also wanted to wait until the topic was hidden to prevent any visual leaks.



I need to fix the outlining and Farore's face.  I can see that the palette will be a concern in this particular case.  It's 32 colors, I want the final image to be 16 colors or less, including Link (bustin98 would help here) and the background, just like the other Oracle character intros:







As I said, it was a fun little thing, but it's not important at this point.



EDIT: Here's a 16-color version of the above...but the face still looks like crap, and if we can get one, a different picture of Link ought to be in there.  I just put him in there to see if it's feasible...luckily, Farore likes green too!







So now that that's over with, let's get serious.



Dungeons.



My ideas are just a start, I don't mind if you don't like 'em as they are.  Should we go with those, change some up, etc.?  And what items should they have, since they will ultimately decide the order of them?



I really like having the Spinner as the item in a possible stage based on clockwork.  Then the next dungeon could be a mine or something that would have deteriorated rails near it, and the Spinner would ride along a place where the rail only remains on one side, making it a prerequisite for that dungeon.  Aside from the fact that I'm probably not explaining the Spinner very well, you get the idea.



Revned and Terra, if you could send me your save files for the Oracle games, that would be helpful.

[RT 55J]

If you just remove the anti-aliasing I'm sure you can get the image down to 16 colors at most.

-

And now for the serious business.



The following dungeon themes are obligatory:

Water {Beach Cave)

Fire (Hourglass Palace (assuming it's in a volcano >.> ))

Light (Temple of Light

Dark (Vampire Crypt)

Plant (Flower Garden)

Time {Clockwork Dungeon)



As you can see, your ideas already cover the motifs.



Other possible themes include (but are not limited to):

Desert (Excavation Site)

Ice ()



However, I am ignoring the fact that many dungeons in the GB games don't have any elemental theme outside of the name or location.



Also, two mini-dungeons are required: the Hero's Cave and final dungeon.



Should we make another thread for discussing this?

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Dot? Dot. Dot!

[TerraEsperZ]

Well, obviously a Light dungeon would only be accessible during the day and a Dark one would only be accessible during the night. Since plants need sunlight, it too would be entered during the day.



I'm also thinking that during the night, the tides would lower the water level and uncover several areas along the coast (at least, I like the idea of having a coast at the bottom of the main map, or at least a section of it) and thus the Water dungeon would be accessible in this manner.



Regarding the elemental themes, they don't need to be mentioned in the game but they could act as guidelines for us as inspiration, especially for whatever artifacts Link would get after clearing each dungeon which would need to fit the theme of the game.



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me

[JonLeung]

I hadn't had "elemental" themes in mind when I came up with those ideas, but now that you mentioned it, I guess they could work.  I really just wanted to somehow use day/night/time in many different ways for variety.



I had envisioned that the stage based on an hourglass (if we were to do one, obviously it's a challenge if it were to flip upside-down like I'd like) would be a desert "dungeon", because not only would the floors switch, but moving sand could reverse direction.  Of course that's just me thinking up crazy ideas.  Still, [time -> hourglass -> sand -> desert] is the line of reasoning.



I was thinking about giant flowers opening and closing, and when they're open, perhaps Link could walk over and jump on petals to reach a dungeon entrance (in addition to whatever else he should've gotten from the previous dungeon as a prerequisite).  Maybe I got that idea from Mario Party 6, the one with the day/night themes.



But for a possible beach dungeon entrance, I think it would be better to have the tides low in the day and high at night.  The tides are associated with the moon which is associated with the night.  (I know visibility of the moon doesn't increase its gravitational pull but just go with it.)  It's a little more logical to me this way.  But you're right...it'd be a good way to make a beach temple entrance accessible/inaccessible.



Remind me again, what were the items Link was collecting in Ages and Seasons?  I suppose if we want to think of a story and what Link's collecting, it'd be easy enough to add or change later, since it'd just be kept in a room after the boss.  I'm sure we're all versed well enough in the Zelda games to know the basics of the dungeons.

[TerraEsperZ]

You're right, the tides being higher at night works better logically, but I just had this great picture in my head of a cave visible at the foot of a cliff under a full moon, I never even though about the attraction thing.



I think for variety, having both flowers opening and leaves as platforms would be neat. As an adverse effect, maybe have some big carnivorous plants open in daylight and block some passages, but they'd retract during the night.



As for what we collect, here they are in the order they are obtained.



Essences Of Time:



-Eternal Spirit

-Ancient Wood

-Echoing Howl

-Burning Flame

-Sacred Soil

-Lonely Peak

-Rolling Sea

-Falling Star



Essences Of Nature:



-Fertile Soil

-Gift of Time

-Bright Sun

-Soothing Rain

-Nurturing Warmth

-Blowing Wind

-Seed of Life

-Changing Seasons



---

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." [...] The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard



B*tch, meet reality. Reality, meet b*tch. - Me

[RT 55J]

In OoA Link collected the 'Essences of Time' (eg Eternal Spirit) to restore the Maku Tree's memory and in OoS he collected the 'Essences of Nature' (eg Bright Sun) for some stupid reason (probably involving trees). I think he should be collecting the 'Essences of the Soul' (eg Crimson Love or Sharp Instinct) this time around to restore somebody's sanity (like a tree).

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Dot? Dot. Dot!

[JonLeung]

Good info.  For consistency and connection with the other Oracle games we'd probably be collecting something for some tree, exactly.  Probably a given, though.



I guess the story specifics, including these items, could be worked out as we go.  What we really need to figure out is what items (Link's tools, rather) go in the dungeons.  I guess we still need another idea for another dungeon, that is, assuming that we're going with all the current suggestions.  The tools determine the order of the dungeons and the possible puzzles...whoever makes the first dungeon isn't going to be making anything complex, and especially not with items obtained later.



There's got to be a hookshot in there!  I love the hookshot.  It's so BAD.



I'd like to compare the inventories in Ages and Seasons (I suppose I could check GameFAQs) to see what items are common to both, and which ones are unique.  If they have the same number of items (I'm guessing they do) then we should have the same number in our game.  However, there wouldn't be a Harp Of Ages/Rod Of Seasons type of item, if we were thinking that Nintendo would have put in a real-time clock in the cartridge.  Or do you think control of day and night should be controlled via an item?  I'm not sure now...but if the GBC games came out at about the same time as Pok?mon Gold/Silver (probably since the GBC didn't last very long) I wouldn't think it unreasonable for Nintendo to expect people to stay up to play games.  Besides, night and day probably change over at 6 AM and 6 PM.