Topic: Ultima and Final Fantasy

[ChesterCheatah1]

Again, understanding that this is a large request, but I would like to see some more Final Fantasy and Ultima games mapped here.

I even have a soft spot for Pagan: Ultima VIII.

[JonLeung]

I agree that we need more for both series, but that is a tall order.  Since fully mapping each one would take some time, perhaps refine your request by identifying your favourites first?

Also, let's not forget the work in mapping these series so far, though indeed, some of these are incomplete:

Final Fantasy
Main series
Final Fantasy (NES)
Final Fantasy II (J) (NES)
Final Fantasy III (J) (NES)
Final Fantasy IV (Super NES), originally known as "Final Fantasy II" outside of Japan
Final Fantasy V (J) (Super NES)
Final Fantasy VI (Super NES), originally known as "Final Fantasy III" outside of Japan
Final Fantasy VII (PSX)
Final Fantasy IX (PSX)
Final Fantasy X (PS2)

Remakes/Ports
Final Fantasy (J) (WSC)
Final Fantasy I & II: Dawn Of Souls (GBA)
Final Fantasy IV Advance (GBA)

Others
Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest (Super NES)
Final Fantasy Tactics (PSX)
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (GBA)
The Final Fantasy Legend (GB), which is really a Final Fantasy-branded Makai Toushi SaGa (J) (WSC)
Final Fantasy Legend II (GB)
Final Fantasy Legend III (GB)
Final Fantasy Adventure (GB), which is really a Final Fantasy-branded Sword Of Mana (GBA)
Chrono Trigger (Super NES), included as part of Final Fantasy Chronicles (PSX)

Ultima
Main series
Ultima IV: Quest Of The Avatar (PC)
Ultima VI: The False Prophet (PC)
Ultima VII: The Black Gate (PC)
Ultima VII - Part Two: Serpent Isle (PC)
Pagan: Ultima VIII (PC)

Remakes/Ports
Ultima: Exodus (NES)
Ultima VI: The False Prophet (Super NES)

Others
Ultima: Runes Of Virtue II (Super NES)
Ultima - Worlds Of Adventure: The Savage Empire (PC)
Ultima - Worlds Of Adventure 2: Martian Dreams (PC)

Remakes/Ports Of Others
Ultima: Savage Empire (J) (Super NES)

[Trop]

I'll add both series to the series request in the listing.  In the mean time I made a map for SNES ultima savage empire, the only Jap only Ultima ever, maybe you could post that this weekend Jon.
edit: Oh yeah, I also completely mapped out runes of virtue 2.
edit again: and I did a world map for ultima 3, why do I keep forgetting this crap.

[ChesterCheatah1]

I agree that we need more for both series, but that is a tall order.  Since fully mapping each one would take some time, perhaps refine your request by identifying your favourites first?

True.  Well, in that case, I'd like to see some Final Fantasy IV Advance and Final Fantasy VII, as well as Pagan: Ultima VIII in particular.  But anything would be awesome!

[JonLeung]

I wasn't planning on having an ongoing listing, but I decided to edit my list above to add the three games Tropicon mentioned that I added this past weekend.

Those are good choices.  I'm sure I've said it's surprising that we haven't gotten maps of Final Fantasy VII yet.  Other than the main overworld, I recall the game is made of prerendered areas, so it's certainly doable without even needing to fiddle with 3D stuff.  PlayStation emulators have been reliable even when the PlayStation was still a current console, and there was a PC port (and I heard there is/will be a rerelease for whatever reason).  For one of the most popular (and of course, overrated) games of all time, you'd think we'd have something from it by now.  Similarly FF VIII also has prerendered areas (if I recall correctly) and a PC port (and no maps here yet).

I noticed Ultima and Final Fantasy do share a number of commonalities...
-both are long-running RPG series.
-IV is a popular one, and remade (well, many are, but IV particularly so).  Ultima IV: Quest Of The Avatar is going to be rereleased as Ultima Forever: Quest For The Avatar and FF IV has been remade quite a number of times, including a DS one so soon after a GBA one.
-VI and VII of each seem to be the most popular in both series.  VII even gets sequels.  (Was Dirge Of Cereberus: FF VII any good?)
-VIII in both series seems to be a little less loved, and both have very unique magic systems compared to the rest of their series.
-IX gets back to their roots...back to Britannia in Ultima IX, and classic fantasy setting for FF IX.
-Ultima is split into thematic trilogies, Final Fantasy is split into trilogies by console generation (well, if they make Final Fantasy XV for the PS3, which might not happen as the PS4 is expected to come out this year).
-Ultima games' numbers are removed for a few of the console versions, Final Fantasy games' numbers are changed for a couple of the outside-of-Japan ones.
-both have a few rereleases and compilations.
-both have a number of spinoffs.
-both are pioneers in online MMOs.

Also, there is an "Ultima" spell in many Final Fantasy games and is usually the most powerful spell, or at least among the most powerful spells.  Presumably from the same root as the word "ultimate", it's not necessarily a reference to the Ultima series, but someone might be about to mention it anyway.

[zoogelio]

I was surprised by the absence of FFVII maps too. All the dungeon maps are flat and the world map has 2 modes: the 3D on the ground view and the 2D overhead view. The 2D view would be ideal for making a map. Same goes for FFVIII & FFIX.

How are such maps ripped from the game's data files? I'm interested in mapping encounter tables and map boundaries. I've compiled that for many of the earlier FFs, made a few maps of regions with the encounters listed for each terrain visually, though the absence of encounter data hurts some games (FFIII, FFIV, FFVIII, FFIX mainly). I'm curious about FFVII & FFVIII's maps on whether they follow the 8x8 grid system of FFI-VI or something new. I've noticed a few oddities but I need maps to be able to verify that. I might do the same for the FFL series, though in FFLIII I have no idea how the encounters are structured since one effort to record 256 battles on one dungeon map on one floor was a bust (add to that the game's huge intervals between encounters at time, which even when sped up can still be a while). I've been able to surmise there are 128 battle formations, possibly 256 if some are duplicated with different configurations.

[JonLeung]

Updated the second post with now-distinct links for the Super NES's Final Fantasy II and the Super Famicom's Final Fantasy IV (J).

As well as...
Final Fantasy VII (PSX)!

FlyingArmor's first map, the No. 1 Reactor, starts off what should be an impressive map set if and when it gets completed.  Looking forward to it!

[Trop]

Holy Crap! FF7!  Flying Armor, how are you doing this?

[FlyingArmor]

Holy Crap! FF7!  Flying Armor, how are you doing this?

Well, I'll be using my usual screen shot method and any codes that help with capturing every corner of every area. That's what I did with my No. 1 Reactor map. For more complicated areas, I won't have a clue until I get to those.

[JonLeung]

I think there are two PC releases, one in 1998 shortly after the 1997 PSX release, and another more recent one in 2013 (not revamped or enhanced or anything), a year ago from tomorrow, in fact.  I don't know if they're any different from each other aside from being compatible with whichever versions of Windows.

Being pre-rendered backgrounds, there might be the case where the PSX and PC versions might look identical, or identical enough.  I'm sure the 3D models for characters and objects would be different, but backgrounds should be okay.  There might be some tools for disassembling the PC version if you have trouble with the PSX version.  You probably won't want to "Frankenstein" your way through it, but it may be an option in some cases.

[FlyingArmor]

I'll keep that option in mind if there is ever a circumstance where there's no way to proceed with the PSX version.

I have two versions of the PSX game: the North American version and the Japanese International version. I've found that the vast majority of cheat codes are for the NA one so using the Japanese version for mapping probably won't be all that fruitful, but it's still there just in case.

There's also the "Debug Room" which may prove useful.

[BumFengShui]

I am really surprised none of you know about 7mimic & 8mimic. I wasn't going to say anything but at this point I really don't feel like I will ever finish mapping either FF7 or FF8 myself.
I downloaded them a long time ago but I don't remember where I got either from, so I did a quick google search and found them both now on gamehacking.org. I have not tested the files from their site so if they don't work let me know and I will send you the copies I have.

http://gamehacking.org/downloads/7mimic.rar
http://gamehacking.org/downloads/8mimic.rar

[FlyingArmor]

Oh wow... that'll literally save me hundreds of hours of goofing around within the game trying to capture all this stuff by hand. Thank you so much BumFengShui for pointing me to these! Now this project won't be nearly as daunting or frustrating as I thought it'd be.

7mimic works just fine for me so no need to worry. Haha, it's funny seeing the train platform image in the program and noticing that 50% or more of the image data there is never seen in-game.

[Trop]

That is awesome.  I wish there weren't so many TIM viewer utilities and more tools for viewing other types of graphics.  It seems most PSX backgrounds aren't TIMs.  I'm sure there must be some way to get the backgrounds out of Legend of Mana or Parasite Eve but I have no idea what format they're in.

[BumFengShui]

I forgot to mention 7mimic does NOT have the sprites or 3d models so there is still a lot that you'll have to add in yourself. Also you may want to try out some field editors for the battle screen backgrounds. There are a few different ones but I've always had trouble getting them to work (likely just my dated computer.)

Trop have you tried using a vram viewer? I've only ever used 'Psx V-Ram', it's a huge pain in the ass & takes forever but there are others out there. I use it for sprites and tiles but just recently I started using it for the pre-rendered backgrounds  in Shadow Madness.