Topic: Chrono Trigger on the Super Nintendo (SNES)

[creaothceann]

How about aligning the text like this?

(in one case the "and" was moved, too)

[snesmaster]

I agree that alignment looks a little better however the way it is now is straight from how the game displays the text.  Here is how it appears in the game:
http://www.nesmaps.com/share/CTScreen.png

Do you think this is a case where I should change the way it appears from the game to make it look better on the map?

I did adjust it so it lines up better on the left so all the "and" line up perfectly.

[snesmaster]

I realized there was one map I forgot about and that is Guardia Castle 1000 AD.  So I will be doing that first and then moving on to the Black Omen.

[creaothceann]

Do you think this is a case where I should change the way it appears from the game to make it look better on the map?

It's already different because there's no message window behind it, so imo it just looks like a description that can be changed at will. And I like aligned text, hence the question.

(I'm sure the game didn't align it because it would've meant programming another separate area for text output, when the existing system works too)

[snesmaster]

I just updated the map for Ioak Hut 1.  I uploaded it to my site and submitted it to this one.  You can view it at:

http://www.snesmaps.com/maps/ChronoTrigger/ChronoTrigger65mIokaHut1.html

[snesmaster]

I have an opinion question.  I'm currently working on Guardia Castle for 1000 AD.  When you first enter guards are blocking doors and you have to deal with the Trial and Rainbow Shell.  After that the guards move out of the way.

Should I show the guards blocking the doors on my map, or should I show them where they stand after the trial and you can go anywhere in the castle?

[creaothceann]

I just updated the map for Ioak Hut 1.

The alignment looks good. But the lower text states the item count; maybe add that at the top? (maybe without the quotes)

Code: [Select]

3 each of
Petal + Fang     = Ruby Gun   / Dream Gun
Petal + Horn     = Sage Bow   / Dream Bow
Petal + Feather  = Stone Arm  / Magma Hand
Fang  + Horn     = Flint Edge / Aeon Blade
Fang  + Feather  = Ruby Vest
Horn  + Feather  = Rock Helm

10 each of
Petal + Fang + Horn + Feather = Ruby Armor

Or 2 grids:

Code: [Select]

       | Fang     | Horn       | Feather
--------+----------+------------+----------
Petal   | Ruby Gun | Sage Bow   | Stone Arm
--------+----------+------------+----------
Fang    |          | Flint Edge | Ruby Vest
--------+----------+------------+----------
Horn    |          |            | Rock Helm

Or the crazy version

Code: [Select]

                    Petal
         --+----------+----+---------
        |  |          |    |         |
        +--Stone Arm  |    Ruby Gun--+
        |             |              |
        |             Sage Bow       |
Feather +--Ruby Vest--|--------------+ Fang
        |             |              |
        +--Rock Helm  |  Flint Edge--+
        |  |          |  |           |
         --+----------+--+-----------
                     Horn


Should I show the guards blocking the doors on my map, or should I show them where they stand after the trial and you can go anywhere in the castle?

Blocking, imo - it conveys the info that they're not just decoration.

[snesmaster]

Those are some awesome charts there, I especially like the bottom one

Should we try to find a way to work in a pie chart or a bar graph as well?

I will go back and edit that, but for now I'm going to focus on finishing the rest of the maps for the game.  Speaking of that, I just finished Guardia Castle 1000 AD and have submitted it to this site and uploaded it to mine.  It can be viewed here:

http://www.snesmaps.com/maps/ChronoTrigger/ChronoTrigger1000GuardiaCastle.html

I also updated the Laruba Ruins to show the Nu that appears and lets you rename your character and give you the Silver Rock:
http://www.snesmaps.com/maps/ChronoTrigger/ChronoTrigger65mLarubaRuins.html

[Paco]

Try to pick these sealed Chests in 600 A.D.

* Porre Elders House (which contain Black Vest)
* Porre Elders House (which contain White Vest)
* Truce Inn (which contain Blue Vest)
* Guardia Castle (which contain Red Vest)

but say NO and return to 1000 A.D.

* Porre Elders House (Black Vest is upgraded to Black Mail)
* Porre Elders House (White Vest is upgraded to White Mail)
* Truce Inn ( Blue Vest is upgraded to Black Mail)
* Guardia Castle (Red Vest is upgraded to Black Mail) *which you marked correctly on maps*

So you need to fix Porre Elders House and Truce Inn maps. I'm not that far yet, but Northern Ruins should be the same. All ther other sealed chests found in game are non-upgradable.

Kali Blade become Shiva Edge.
Siren become Valkyrie.
Nova Armor become Moon Armor.

To get these new treasures, you need to go to 600 A.D., picks the chests and say NO and return to 1000 A.D. So you need to edit Northern Ruins 1000 A.D. as well. Oh and if you took the upgradable items in 1000 A.D., then you can return to 600 A.D. and get the original items as well.

Edit:

About the time you got Ayla for good in team, you can visit Guardia Castle freely with Marle in your active Team, though only Kings Room and Basement will be off-limit.

[TerraEsperZ]

I think it's a testament to Chrono Trigger's greatness as a 16-bit JRPG that mapping it accurately seems so difficult with so many exceptions and secrets . You're braver than I for tackling this.

[snesmaster]

I just updated all 3 maps to show the upgraded items.

Just a correction on your correction - Blue Vest upgrades to Blue Mail

Truce Inn 1000 AD:
http://www.snesmaps.com/maps/ChronoTrigger/ChronoTrigger1000TruceInn.html

Porre Mayor's Manor:
http://www.snesmaps.com/maps/ChronoTrigger/ChronoTrigger1000PorreMayorsManor.html

Northern Ruins 1000 AD:
http://www.snesmaps.com/maps/ChronoTrigger/ChronoTrigger1000NorthernRuins.html

Let me know if you catch anything else.

-TerraEsperZ - Thanks, I don't think I would have the courage to take this on if it was not my all time favorite SNES game.  It's been a lot of fun, and a lot of work

[snesmaster]

All the maps for this game are now pretty much finished.  They have been uploaded to my site and submitted to this one.

Please provide feedback on the final areas of the game and be sure to let me know if you find anything I missed along the way.

Black Omen:
http://www.snesmaps.com/maps/ChronoTrigger/ChronoTriggerBlackOmen.html

Inside Lavos:
http://www.snesmaps.com/maps/ChronoTrigger/ChronoTriggerInsideLavos.html

Ending Flyby 1:
http://www.snesmaps.com/maps/ChronoTrigger/ChronoTriggerEndingFlyby1.html

Ending Flyby 2:
http://www.snesmaps.com/maps/ChronoTrigger/ChronoTriggerEndingFlyby2.html

[creaothceann]

Black Omen:
The normal queen sprite also appears on the last Black Omen fight screen, maybe include that? And maybe put the enemies in both elevators into them.

Inside Lavos:
What's the policy on animated GIFs/APNGs? It seems this page could utilize them...

Ending Flyby 1:
The ship also appears on that screen... Anyway, there's an ending where Crono & Marle fly into the sky, maybe include that sprite?

[JonLeung]

We don't have any APNGs on the site, but we do have some animated GIFs.

There's no real "policy" on animated GIFs and APNGs.  I'd like to think that I rarely reject files.  In any case where I might have reason to be critical, it would be a case-by-case basis.  It's really more like what's common sense, what's wieldy/unwieldy, that sort of thing.

I agree that the Lavos Core segment would look impressive if animated.  Don't think it's required, just cool-looking.  However, (and I'm not familiar with how the animation in APNGs work) if the animation requires the entire image to be repeated per animation frame, it could balloon the filesize up.  Sure, it's only 92.8 kB to start with, and if there's only a few frames, it might be okay.  If it became 10 MB (which it surely wouldn't, but I'm just saying), then it might be a questionable choice.  Animation is more often a "neat" (as in cool) thing than a necessary one.

TerraEsperZ's animation of the penultimate stage of Battletoads, "The Revolution", is rather cool because it's difficult to show how the stage is otherwise (other than static front/rear views - though he provided those too).  And it looks awesome and is therefore worth the 4.68 MB.  Though we also have ugly maps that are bigger so why should I judge?

There's more than just size to consider though.  I recall Revned (correct me if I'm wrong) once tried making animated Mega Man III stages.  They looked cool, but I seem to recall the concern then was that browsers don't all display motion/animated PNGs the same way.  If they can't display the animation and only show some frame by default (whether it's the first or otherwise), will that still be a good map?

Kind of ironic that I'm talking about unwieldy filesizes and inconsistencies across browsers when I know those are the two problems with the static HTML listings on this site...  >_>

[TerraEsperZ]

The problem with the APNG format is that it is an unofficial extension of the PNG format and therefore will most likely never be universally supported. It's unfortunately the only viable alternative for a lossless animated images with more than 256 colors at the moment, at least to my knowledge.