Topic: Did Flip Industries Really Create "Super Kid Icarus"?

[Trop]

If he's stealing from DA you could make that public knowledge on the DA boards to do some damage.  From what I hear the DA boards are lots of drama so the impact might be huge.

[JonLeung]

GoNintendo Nightly: The Best, Worst and Weirdest Nintendo News of May 2nd, 2012

I can't seem to embed YouTube like I used to...anyway, GoNintendo mentions it in this video, between 3:04 and 4:10.  I guess I wrote decently enough for it to be "well worth" anyone's time.

[Mikemc]

I am now officially confused on the subject, here is what I've found:

DrX Gaming has a myspace profile under the name "megamanclassic" and contains 2 images - 'Super Kid Icarus' and 'Icarus Prime'. They are both identical except for some minor color changes and added grass on the dirt. DrX Gaming has a Youtube channel showing off the game, upload date 2009 (as you've stated) HOWEVER here is what the description says.

( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_NVHMtFU8I )

Current Release: July 31, 2011 Engine Build
Download: http://www.mediafire.com/?2c6nl4uof4n6lyr
Current Statues: New video will be uploaded later in the year.
This engine is based on the (Open Source) Kid Icarus by Game Fortress.

Map Tile credit: Jon Leung - VGMaps

Notice at the bottom that you are credited for the tileset!

You are also credited on this page:
http://www.flixya.com/photo/2303489/Kid-Icarus-Prime

In the comments section of his YT channel, both you and Flip are mentioned so I have no idea what is going on anymore

I've given credit to Jon Leung including VGMaps in the "Kid Icarus Prime" video description. If he would of actually played the game credit was given, and once the new video is ready even Flip Industries will be credited for couple of tile ideas.

It's difficult to take either side here. Someone used tilesets (and levels?) from someone else.. that were arranged using tiles drawn by someone else

[Will]

It is good to see that DRX Gaming actually credited those maps and tiles, though asking to use them would have been more polite. You make it sound like Flip Industries got permission from DRX Gaming and therefore it would seem they had the right idea. But Flip Industries' suspicious behaviour of multiple accounts (sockpuppetry is the term on Wikipedia), defending itself and not replying to Jon's questioning dictates otherwise. I suggest a discussion with megamanclassic or someone related to DRX Gaming. I hope they have a better idea about answering questions than Flip Industries did.

[JonLeung]

Actually, I am confused too, but on the point where you mentioned that DRX Gaming has credited me.

After the initial write-up of that article against Flip Industries in January, I was emailed repeatedly by someone (supposedly) from DRX Gaming, claiming that I mapped their game, essentially saying that I was the thief.

My article was clearly and specifically talking about Flip Industries' project, so it was odd that since I could still maintain my stance about my maps (as it is the truth) against any later fan-made Kid Icarus game whose maps resembled mine, that DRX Gaming would even pop up just to accuse me.  (If I'm remembering these various projects correctly, I seem to recall that DRX Gaming's project even took the title logo I made...sheesh.  Not that it was hard to make, but then it's all the more blatant...)

A snippet of one of the harassing emails:

Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:58:23 -0800
Subject: RE: super kid icarus is not yours!!!! READ THIS EMAIL!!!!

It is simple very simple. DRX Gaming created super kid icarus and then you took sprite sheets from it. Simple DRX Gaming mad it first before 2007 and it was taken

Your entire website page of analysis didn't mention DRX Gaming. Odd and why well cause they created it and you kno it and didn't want to give credit

What I want is yours site and the analysis web page to give credit to DRX as the creaters

Simple so sinmple. You kno what you did cause you never said about DRX Gaming at all!!!!!

(EDIT: Apparently I did mention DRX Gaming earlier in this thread, forgot about that...)

That's just a small part of the whole ridiculous conversation.  Because here I am, able to prove that my maps came first, though NOT speaking against DRX Gaming, and this guy from DRX Gaming was suddenly accusing ME of stealing his work, with no shred of proof, or even any maturity in his statements.  And this was on an email discussion, no less.  As in a discussion between just two people.  The two people who both know who really made those maps.  He's trying to convince me that I didn't make my own maps, when he and I both know I did?  What a waste of time.  I figured him to be a troll who popped up just because he WANTED me to mention DRX Gaming, so I chose NOT to mention them or their game.  And then I blocked him.

But I guess I didn't question if he really was from DRX Gaming at the time, because I had no reason to think otherwise.  But if you're seeing DRX Gaming mention my name, that's a surprise to me.  (Though taking stuff without my permission and then slapping my name on after doesn't really count as "credit".)

As I said, the article proving that my maps came first can stand against anything (which so far has been nothing of value) that Flip Industries or DRX Gaming OR any troll can throw at me.  The focus of the article will remain on Flip Industries, because not only is that where this began, but they are still active in promoting their game, and worse, still active in taking others' work.

[JonLeung]

Hmmm.  Intriguing idea.  Not sure why I was blind to that possibility.  Kinda facepalming myself here.

We don't know for sure, but if that was indeed Flip Industries impersonating DRX Gaming, perhaps they didn't think they could counter my arguments, so they figured they might as well dilute or divert the allegations.  And judging from what I've seen so far, that hypothesis isn't surprising if it turns out to be true.

Not that the real DRX Gaming is off the hook.  I'm still not fond of anyone who takes my work without asking, and I say again that the real value of fan games is for fan game makers to learn how to make games, so it's rather defeative of the point to take someone else's work.  Don't fan game makers want to be proud of doing all the work on their game?

After all the trouble Flip Industries has gone through because of this, they're either regretting that they should have accepted my initial terms for proper credit (though reluctant at the time) and now have to do all this damage control, or they just think it's a big joke now because their game is getting attention helped along by me.  Negative publicity is still publicity.

Perhaps the best thing for me to do is to say my piece, have it available, but be done with it.

But I guess now I can't be entirely unactive on this point; I'll still have to update the article as things change, if some of the deviantART users wish to make their grievances known about Flip Industries and their shady practices.

...I don't think anyone wonders now why I'm not keen on April Fools' maps anymore.

[Will]

I'm suspecting the same Flip Industries user is advertising in Wikipedia to get some sort attention and make it seem genuinely original. The user under the name PeterAmbrosia has so far only been updating the Kid Icarus related material and nothing else in the last eight months. He created a "Super Kid Icarus" article which was later nominated for deletion and he protested against the article deletion. Also the citations to the fan game quote the exact text content of the Flip Industries website. Though the user has been brief, he didn't follow certain procedures in Wikipedia editing, which you can expect from the immature kind. I took the liberty of citing and notifying the possibility of graphical theft within the article sentence of the so-called notable remake. The user has not yet deleted my addition text at any rate. Time will tell when new strategies take place.

Mighty suspicious, yet juicy gossip and another chink in Flip Industries' armour.

That user will do anything he can to claim to public eyes that Super Kid Icarus was his creation alone.

[JonLeung]

I noticed that there was a question specifically about VGMaps.com on Yahoo! Answers sometime recently (though deleted, but can still be seen when doing a Google search) and edits to the VGMaps Wikipedia article, both about the legality of screenshot maps, the latter done on May 1, which is the very day I updated my article against Flip Industries.

I don't like this escalation, if it is indeed a retaliative effort on their part.  It certainly appears to be a possibility, given what we know they have done.  It seems that Flip Industries would attempt to take down VGMaps.com, a resource for everyone (including them, ironically), rather than admit to wrongdoing on their part.

EDIT: In other news, I found a Google-cached page of the PixelJoint forum topic before the "rickrolling" edit, if that helps put Flip Industries' recruitment topic in any better context.  Though I guess all it proves is that it was something else before being edited, and that they thought it was necessary to just do that instead of just saying that positions were filled or something along those lines.  Maybe I'll grab a screenshot of that page if I do decide to further update my article, if further evidence of their immaturity is necessary.

Also, there's now a similar question on the Australian Yahoo! Answers as the previous one, except now the questioner (who just joined "today", May 10 - because it's Australian) makes sure to mention my name directly.  Sheesh.  It's like he's personally attacking me now, lashing out in desperation because there's no way he can save face.

EDIT: And the same user, "Greg", more recently asked again on the American Yahoo! Answers, the same question, but now specifically mentioning that I operate out of Canada.  If this was a legitimate question, one should only need to mention screenshot maps in general.  VGMaps might be used as a reference if it was about that, but mentioning my name and my location is clearly targetting me.  How ridiculous this all is...

EDIT: And now there's a YouTube video against me.  It's private, though, so one has to wonder what gems of wisdom are found in there...

EDIT: And a YouTube channel by "Tim Buxton" (the same username who defended Flip Industries on the PixelJoint forums) to "alert the public of the catastrophe" of me and VGMaps, which are both "terrible".  This guy needs a new hobby.

[Peardian]

Sheesh. What is with this guy? Doesn't he realize he's just burning bridges by all this nonsense?

[Maxim]

http://www.google.com/search?q=vgmaps+site%3Aanswers.yahoo.com

He seems persistent I guess he's hoping to make you afraid of having bad stuff associated with your name on the internet.

[JonLeung]

Thankfully, I doubt anyone is taking the questions on Yahoo! Answers seriously.  (Flip Industries is likely involved with the questions on Yahoo! Answers that seem to be "advertising" Super Kid Icarus as well, with questions that wouldn't be realistically asked like "Where can I play Super Kid Icarus, the free Flash game?")  It seems like the recent and suspicious Wikipedia edits have also been undone, so the article has reverted to how it was earlier.  Thanks to anyone and everyone who is supportive.  

So I guess I needn't worry about Flip Industries, as nothing they do really sticks, and the more they try, the more they make themselves look bad.  I suppose I also don't need to present a continually ongoing account of their feeble attempts either, if that might be seen as feeding the troll(s), since I think by now we have seen enough cases revealing their immaturity.

As I said, it's not about me and my maps any more - but there's still got to be some way to get them to stop taking others' artwork from deviantART and elsewhere.

[FlyingArmor]

Funnily enough, it seems someone responded to the latest question on Yahoo Answers... >_>;

It's really funny the person who responded should relate making screen shot maps to stealing a car; the analogy simply isn't valid. If someone steals your car, you no longer have it. If someone takes screen shots of a game and assembles them into a map, the creator of the game still has the game, and even so, you're not copying the entire game anyway by making maps from it (and even copying the entire game wouldn't be stealing either). So to call mapping a form of stealing is pretty ridiculous and goes to show they don't really know what the word "steal" means. Copying isn't synonymous with stealing.

[Will]

Funny it's still Greg posting a question, you'd think Yahoo Question would ban the troll. I too am not impressed at this so-called top contributor's answer. Very unprofessional. I suggest some hotmail member around here prove him wrong with a brief reply. It is ridiculous Greg says he doesn't want to be a thief when in fact he already he is one. What a hypocrite.

[HackalJackal]

Quite an example of douchebaggery, if you ask me.

So they never respond?  That smells suspicious, anyone would at least say something.

[Mikemc]

The Youtube channel is by "Musa Sharifa"

About Musa Sharifa

Channel created by 3 mates to alert the public of the catastrophe that has hit regarding Jon Leung and VGMaps. Note - this channel and videos are jokes and not to be taken seriously and really are pretty terrible. Any reference to a person living or dead is coincidental.

The videos appear to be trolling you about how much attention you want for this debacle :p. Not a big deal except they're hiding behind 'in our opinion' and 'coincidence', in addition to posting the vids as responses to other such videos. In my opinion however the only people who pay any attention to those kinds of videos are conspiracy theorists and reside in the 'slums' of Youtube. I think you've made your point and should let it pass.