Topic: Clock Tower (SNES)

[TerraEsperZ]

This is just a place holder for now to acknowledge that I *am* intent on posting a finished map sometime soon. I might be a few days, or maybe a bit more, but I'm working on it. So please nobody post a finished map set to the site before I'm done!

[TerraEsperZ]

Okay, I know, two months is more than a few days, but in my defence, this time I wasn't working on something else instead of doing this. Summer is simply a very busy period in terms of doing overtime at my work, in addition to having various family members visiting (as well as handling some minor family drama).

So, let's talk about the map. I'm trying something a bit more polished than usual, which always takes me a lot of time by virtue of doing everything by hand (like borders and such). I'm using coloured borders to separate the mansion's main areas to make the map easier to follow and simplify the placement for connecting lines and arrows. I've also used coloured borders for the rooms that randomly switch place with one another at the start of every game.

One thing I'm not satisfied with right now are the double arrows used in a few places where there are two doors one over the other both leading to the same room/corridor. I'd like to assume that people will understand that each door will lead to the corresponding floor in the other room (1st floor to 1st floor, 2nd to 2nd) but I'd like to know how obvious it is to you guys. I did it this way because I felt using lines going both from the top and the bottom would have cluttered the map unnecessarily. Also, you can observe that the mansion uses some non-euclidean geometry in how the West Wing connects to the East one (doors in the background should be in the foreground).

The overall layout is pretty much final, and I only have to check a few places to see if you can go back to them or not. Like I said, I'd also very much like to include a number of tips and strategies like where the items are located, which keys are needed where, as well as locations where Bobby can attack you or where you can hide form him. If I do go down this route, I'll make sure to share the map with you guys for a final proofread.



As always, comments and suggestions are welcomed (but might be incessantly debated because I'm stubborn and like doing things "my way" )

[JonLeung]

Map looks great!  I'm very much interested in this game even more now.

To be honest, I got a little confused with the double-lines thing at first.  I was looking at that one room in the West Wing, and since I was just skimming/scrolling the image, I didn't really see that the corresponding rooms also had two floors.  So I thought it was a single room, and that under certain conditions, or through story progression, that green door would appear in place of where the third window is.

(Yeah, though that wouldn't make sense, if there's a supernatural element to the horror - more akin to Silent Hill than Resident Evil - then it wouldn't be impossible by the story's logic.  I recall a part in Silent Hill 3 where a room changes, even while you're still in it (the floor you passed becomes a large opening for you to climb down after you do something at some altar at the other end of the room and then turn around), and because of the forced camera perspective, you don't see it when it's actually happening, it's just suddenly open as if it had been all along.)

But then when I looked around again, it became clear to me what you meant.  Then I was thinking to make more lines snaking around things, but then I imagine it would probably become a mess, as you already said.  You could use letters or numbers or symbols by each door with the corresponding exit marked with the same letter/number/symbol, then then I guess that makes the whole place disjointed and harder to follow.  I guess I don't really have much to suggest that you hadn't already thought of.

By the way, something about that inaccessible room is creepy...

I look forward to the completed map!  Do you think I should make time to play this game one day?

[TerraEsperZ]

Map looks great!  I'm very much interested in this game even more now.

To be honest, I got a little confused with the double-lines thing at first.  I was looking at that one room in the West Wing, and since I was just skimming/scrolling the image, I didn't really see that the corresponding rooms also had two floors.  So I thought it was a single room, and that under certain conditions, or through story progression, that green door would appear in place of where the third window is.

But then when I looked around again, it became clear to me what you meant.  Then I was thinking to make more lines snaking around things, but then I imagine it would probably become a mess, as you already said.  You could use letters or numbers or symbols by each door with the corresponding exit marked with the same letter/number/symbol, then then I guess that makes the whole place disjointed and harder to follow.  I guess I don't really have much to suggest that you hadn't already thought of.

I might add little captions for those few lines or maybe I'll use lines for these too. I'll have to think about it.

By the way, something about that inaccessible room is creepy...

It really sounds more creepy than it really is, as you simply can't select that door at all. In the Playstation version of the game, it's simply another bedroom except that it's in ruins, but you can apparently hide under the bed in this one too. I simply wanted to show that like all the other rooms with green borders, this door can change place too.

I look forward to the completed map!  Do you think I should make time to play this game one day?

You definitely should, and try to avoid any FAQs or walkthrough aside from learning the controls and how the stress level works. Once you're spoiled on where you can be attacked and where you can hide, the fear factor goes down dramatically.

[Revned]

I just played a bit of the game, and it seems very cool. Your map looks great. One thing though - are you going to somehow show the lights-on/lights-off versions of the rooms with usable light switches? Perhaps have two maps? It would be a shame not to be able to see the differences.

[TerraEsperZ]

That would be quite easy since I've saved multiple versions of every room, and this map only shows the default state of each one. I haven't had time to do any more work for this game but hopefully I'll be able to soon.

[JonLeung]

This is just a place holder for now to acknowledge that I *am* intent on posting a finished map sometime soon. I might be a few days, or maybe a bit more, but I'm working on it. So please nobody post a finished map set to the site before I'm done!

Hasn't it been "maybe a bit more" than "a few days"?

640 days and counting... 

I hope it's not rude of me to bump this up to say I'm still looking forward to these maps.

[TerraEsperZ]

Unfortunately, you might as well say that about 95+% of my projects. It hasn't been abandoned I assure you but I remember putting it aside almost two years ago because I wasn't able to

Come on JonLeung. Knowing me, you should know better by now .

But seriously, I can't really give you an estimate as to when I'll finish this, but I'm at least closer than I was two years ago. I really want to make a version of the map that could act as a walkthrough to the game and I've (slowly) become used to adding tips to my work. If you really want a map at any cost, I can push to simply polish this one a bit and send it, but seeing as I'll do a second one with the walkthrough, I would have wanted the both of them to be "in sync", although nothing's stopping me from going back to it afterwards.

Anyway, thanks for bringing this to my attention because I really have so many of these in limbo it's hard to keep track.

[JonLeung]

Well, I certainly understand the desire for perfectionism.  But if you're holding out for months or even years because of final details when you've already got something presentable, I think that could bite you in the butt.  If in the meantime someone else sends in maps, then there's that awkward scenario of: do I put up their maps when I know you were working on yours?  We can "call dibs" all we like on the forums, but if other people don't use the forums...  I don't really want to say no if someone else sends me good maps, but I'll hate the feeling knowing that someone's work will have gone to waste if there's no reason for me to keep both (especially if neither is blatantly flawed).  A more "universal" way of "calling dibs" would probably be to submit what you've got, once you can.  Like you said, you can always come back to it to add to it, fix it, etc, and if it's merely presentable but not perfect in your eyes, perhaps once it's out there more publicly, it might spurn you to perfect them sooner than if you just left them on your own hard drive, potentially forgotten, by yourself, even!

Of course there's that issue of submitting the beginnings of something and then not completing it.  I hope no one's waiting for the rest of the Totally Rad (NES) or Simon The Sorcerer (PC) maps that I started work on ages ago.  At this point (or even since way back when) I would be happy if someone else took them on, but the few maps I put up might be a deterrent towards getting the rest of it done, if mappers potentially interested think I would want to finish what I start (which is usually the case, or even almost always, at least with other projects in my life).

But in the case of your Clock Tower, it's all a single map, is it not?  Submitting that would be enough to fend off potential map submission conflicts.

I'm glad you're considering sending what you've got (well, because I bumped this topic ) and I thank you if you do, but really, do want you want, it's not like I need this right this second.  If it bothers you too much to send in something less than perfect, then don't.  It's just that while there is no one else working on Clock Tower that I know of, that's not to say there couldn't be, so I'm just making a suggestion so that your effort so far won't be for naught, which might be a worse feeling.  At 1 and 3/4 years later, I think that's a fair suggestion for me to make...

[TerraEsperZ]

Originally posted on February 04, 2013, 05:39:49 PM

I know I suck at actually submitting finished maps. I often make fun of myself in that regard because the alternative would be to chastise myself without mercy. I know I often offer justification but the reality is that I often simply forget about these projects after taking a break for a week or more because another game will suddenly catch my fancy. I don't want you to feel like you need to "police" me to release anything but it's a good thing you do because like I said, I tend to simply forget about these for months or years on end.

In any case, I pledge to submit as many finished maps as I can by this weekend. A real, serious pledge. I hate doing it like this but as you said, otherwise most of what I do never gets seen by anyone and other mappers (deservedly) get to send in their maps. I just have my "mystery" project (it's Gradius for the NES) to finish first but it's practically done and should be posted tonight. I've at least gotten much faster at making up my mind with map headers so doing a bunch for my unfinished stuff should be pretty quick.

[TerraEsperZ]

Well, it's finally *almost* done. Althought it doesn't look like much as changed, a ton of little details have been modified. I've made the lines and arrows thinner, adding names for almost all the rooms as well as key/item requirements and used some pixel shadowing to hopefully make the distinction easier for double lines and overlapping doors.

I'd just like name suggestions for the rooms that are still unnamed. I don't know much in terms of building and cavern nomenclature in English so I decided to ask you guys. The room names aren't that important as they aren't official but they'd be useful in case I ever do make a second version with hints and walkthrough information and need to refer to them. the only rooms I'll most likely leave unnamed are the various hallways in the East and West Wings since I have no idea how to refer to all of them (should I use left/center/right or cardinal directions to refer to the hallways?).

I specifically need help with the vocabulary in English. For example, is "elevator stop" correct? Can I name a room "2nd floor elevator stop" or is that a mistake? Similarly, is "cave chamber" correct, because I would probably refer to the cave rooms as "1st, 2nd and 3rd cave chamber" if it is. Finally, I'm not sure how to call the exterior of the tower with the ladder. Would a simple "clock tower exterior" work, or would "clock face" or "tower wall" be better? English speakers, I need your help!

[TerraEsperZ]

Nobody? Nobody can spare a few minutes to correct my vocabulary/grammar? Seriously, that's all I'm waiting for before submitting this map. Come on people, I need your help  ...

[snesmaster]

I would use "Cavern" instead of "cave chamber".  Lobby is the main floor where you get on the elevator typically on the ground floor.  As for elevator stops on other floors, I would call them Elevator Waiting Room.

Here is a site that gives names for Rooms in a house in English: http://www.learnenglish.de/vocabulary/rooms.htm

I hope that helps some.

[DarkWolf]

nth Floor Elevator Access would probably work best for the elevator rooms.  Lobby (at least in N. America) usually applies to a commercial building or hotel, rather than a private residence.

Also, Cage Room you might want to call Butcher's Room or something similar, as from the graphic it looks like there's an apron, tools and a butcher's block.  The cages are for animals, probably chickens.  Although typically a room like that wouldn't be attached to the main house, or at least it wouldn't be accessible from a nice hallway like that.

[snesmaster]

Yea, I agree nth Floor Elevator Access sounds good.