Topic: Zelda II The Adventure of Link

[snesmaster]

Hi, I just wanted to post an update on my current project.  I have already posted maps for this game, however I made those maps early on when I was just learning how to do it.  Since then I have learned about things like the Name Table Viewer, and the ability to turn off sprites and how to find codes to walk through walls so I can get to every part of the game.  I am going back through an redoing all the maps for this game, along with mapping all the other areas other then just the towns and palaces.

I am finding errors in my old maps and places where I cut off a few pixels from the edge of the map that I can now capture with the name table viewer when the game does not scroll all the way to the end of the map.

I'm also making an overworld map that will be completely labeled with all the secrets and traps in the game as well as the towns and palaces.

Once I finish working on this project I will continue to work on more Chrono Trigger maps for the SNES as requested.

[Paco]

That would be super awesome if you could do that. 

[TerraEsperZ]

Are you going to align the sections in palaces and caves so the doors are directly connected? That was the thing I disliked the most about your maps

[snesmaster]

You make a good point about the alignment of the maps.  I have given that some thought.  The problem is in some areas I can align them just fine, but in others they would not fit together if I did that.  Problems with one section running into another and needing arrows to show how the different areas connect and spacing them apart so they don't collide with each other.  I thought about aligning the areas that would not collide, and then not aligning where it would collide, but I would rather keep it consistent.

However it is a good point.  Would people rather have the walkways line up in areas, and then have arrows connecting other sections that no longer fit together because of overlapping, or keep it the way the maps are currently set up?  I am open to suggestions if you have any ideas on how to best layout the map sections.

Thanks for your input.

[JonLeung]

I don't know if this would work, but what if you allowed more vertical space for each row of screens?

I guess what that's really asking is to line up the sections, and then to just pull each row apart from each other so that there is no overlap.

Or would "allowing vertical space" end up slicing the palaces too much into horizontal slices instead of a coherent piece?

[TerraEsperZ]

My feeling is that you, the mapper, ultimately get to decide how to handle a map that's internally inconsistent. In many cases, it gives you a chance to be imaginative and artistic since there's often not a perfect way to do it.

In this particular case, I would personally handle it either one of the two following ways:

1) Align all the horizontal doorways for starters. In order to avoid rooms colliding with one another, I would also try to keep a certain minimal amount of vertical space between any two sections (probably the same you already have). Since the various sections are already not connected vertically, inserting vertical space would make bigger gaps between elevator stops so I'd use either lines or arrows to connect them. Or maybe fill in the gaps in the elevator shafts with the level tiles to give the impression of continuity between stops. It wouldn't look too out of place but it wouldn't be completely accurate since you're adding a bit of stuff where there isn't any.

Or...

2) Keep you maps generally as they are since keeping the sections themselves aligned and not the doorways make the maps more orderly. I'd simply add in line or arrows between elevators tops and *also* between doors that aren't on the same level. I can't explain to you why I *hate* using letters or numbers as connection points on maps but I just do. In my mind, it's only acceptable for RPGs or similar games where connecting points between areas are not on the edge of a map where you could use lines or arrows without overwriting the game's graphics. Of course, adding so many arrows and thus adding horizontal space between rooms might not look that good either, but I assume that if I had to make a choice, I'd then stand by it, good looking or not.

In any case, lines or arrows would definitely be preferable (to me at least!) when the sections are far apart, which happens in a major way in the Great Palace.

As for what the best layout would be objectively? I suck at layout, they're one of the reasons I've put some mapping projects on indefinite hold, so definitely don't ask me !

[snesmaster]

TerraEsperZ, I think I like your option 2 the best.  I have included a sample of what it would look like with a connection arrow instead of the letters I was using.  I have the baseline of the arrow 16 pixels above the floor for each part, and would keep that consistent through all the maps.  I think it definitely has a cleaner look then the letters version.

Let me know what you think.  Thanks again for all the suggestions.

[TerraEsperZ]

That's not how I would have done it, but it *also* looks much better! And speaking as someone who hates his own limited pixel artwork, I simply love your arrows. I know that's praising something relatively minor, but there you go

[snesmaster]

Thanks for the complement on the arrows.  I have used those same arrows in maps for multiple games I have mapped in the past.  Sometimes with or without the black outline and once in a while with a drop shadow.  I wanted something that would fit in nice with the 8-bit style of graphics.

[Rew]

Hey snesmaster, is there any update on this? I'm really looking forward these new and improved maps!

[snesmaster]

Hey snesmaster, is there any update on this? I'm really looking forward these new and improved maps!

I have switched projects to finish the Chrono Trigger maps.  My goal is to get them all done by December of this year.  Once I get that done I plan on returning to the Zelda II project.  I just have the last two Palaces to finish along with all the areas between them.