21
Map Gab / Re: Shamus - full map
« Last post by JonLeung on January 03, 2026, 08:17:03 am »I sent you a PM about details...
Recent Posts
22
Map Gab / Shamus - full map
« Last post by yevrowl on January 02, 2026, 09:14:26 pm »Full map for Shamus is attached.
23
Maps Of The Month / Re: 2026/01: Nightshade - Part 1: The Claws Of Sutekh (NES) - zagato blackfist
« Last post by dark_lord_zagato on January 02, 2026, 10:37:02 am »Thanks as always. I remember the biggest challenge with this one was compiling all the rooms in a way that actually makes sense. I was originally going to treat this like The Legend of Zelda with the city as the overworld and the houses/sewers as the underworld, but when I found out this wouldn't work I had to make a new plan.
I changed my mind several times in fact. In the end I only decided what the layout for these maps would be after I beat the game and collected screenshots of every last room.
I changed my mind several times in fact. In the end I only decided what the layout for these maps would be after I beat the game and collected screenshots of every last room.
24
VGMaps Social Board / Re: External site using VGMaps content?
« Last post by JonLeung on January 01, 2026, 09:38:16 pm »Thanks, Cyartog959!
I know those of you in the VGMaps community, for long or for short times, know what's up. Thank you for your support!
As I said, I'm not worried. At all. Whoever they are can't undo over twenty years of history.
Hey, look, even Google's AI overview knows what's up:
Funny that it's using the map of the Water Temple from The Legend Of Zelda: Ocarina Of Time, by Peardian, but I shouldn't be surprised; for a while it was the one map that people on reddit actually liked linking and relinking to. (I don't go on reddit much anymore since it always feels so vile...)
The AI overview is drawing a lot of that info from this very topic here on the VGMaps forums, but hey, now we know that if anyone asks that question to Google, that's what they'll get.
Assuming people trust AI. That's a WHOLE OTHER discussion...
I know those of you in the VGMaps community, for long or for short times, know what's up. Thank you for your support!
As I said, I'm not worried. At all. Whoever they are can't undo over twenty years of history.
Hey, look, even Google's AI overview knows what's up:
Funny that it's using the map of the Water Temple from The Legend Of Zelda: Ocarina Of Time, by Peardian, but I shouldn't be surprised; for a while it was the one map that people on reddit actually liked linking and relinking to. (I don't go on reddit much anymore since it always feels so vile...)
The AI overview is drawing a lot of that info from this very topic here on the VGMaps forums, but hey, now we know that if anyone asks that question to Google, that's what they'll get.
Assuming people trust AI. That's a WHOLE OTHER discussion...
25
Maps Of The Month / 2026/01: Nightshade - Part 1: The Claws Of Sutekh (NES) - zagato blackfist
« Last post by JonLeung on January 01, 2026, 08:25:07 pm »
For this month's "Maps Of The Month" featurette, I wish to draw your attention to zagato blackfist's Nightshade - Part 1: The Claws Of Sutekh (NES) maps.
The villainous Sutekh seeks to dominate and control Metro City through crime and terror. But a crimefighter named Nightshade might thwart Sutekh's plans. Playing as Nightshade, you will patrol the dark corners of the city to find clues and items, solve puzzles, gain "Popularity", and confront five crime kings, including Sutekh himself.
This game has a unique atmosphere and play style, absolutely unlike anything else seen on the NES. It's mostly point-and-click action, but sprinkled in are some 1v1 and 1v2 fighting sequences. There's even a brief fire rescue sequence that almost feels like a Donkey Kong level! Popularity is required to progress at a couple of points, and you can build that up by winning fights and doing good deeds for Metro City's civilians.
Metro City (not to be confused with the Metro City in Final Fight, Captain Commando, or the Megamind movies) is a dark place, but zagato blackfist has mapped all 108 screens to give Nightshade a fighting chance, including the five traps that Nightshade finds himself in if he's defeated, four of which can be escaped with puzzle-solving skills (or zagato blackfist's provided solutions). It's a neat twist on the concept of having a number of lives, and one of the things this game is known for, but if it were to have a Popularity meter, it's still on the low side and could use a boost.
So to recognize the effort put into recognizing this hidden gem, zagato blackfist's Nightshade - Part 1: The Claws Of Sutekh (NES) maps will be known as VGMaps.com's Maps Of The Month for January 2026.
26
Maps In Progress / Super Star Wars Trilogy Maps Not Finished Yet?
« Last post by Cyartog959 on December 30, 2025, 08:02:21 pm »I couldn't help but notice only about very few maps of the Super Star Wars Trilogy on the SNES hasn't been finished and put up yet. The first game, obviously named the same, has the rest of its maps yet to be documented, as well as the remaining two games.
I've seen Will Mallia's work on it, but, I felt that he got sidetracked with other mapping projects, or whatever else he was busy with in general, that he may have forgotten to return and finish mapping the rest.
Will Mallia, wherever you are right now, hope you read this and return to mapping the rest of that game and the trilogy on SNES sometime soon.
I've seen Will Mallia's work on it, but, I felt that he got sidetracked with other mapping projects, or whatever else he was busy with in general, that he may have forgotten to return and finish mapping the rest.
Will Mallia, wherever you are right now, hope you read this and return to mapping the rest of that game and the trilogy on SNES sometime soon.
27
VGMaps Social Board / We're with you, Jon! ;)
« Last post by Cyartog959 on December 30, 2025, 06:22:32 pm »Thanks for responding, and you know what?
You've got plenty more friends than "enemies", and your family's with you, too, even your brother.
No falsified knock-off nor inhumane mockery of VGMaps is gonna tear down the good name of the largest, ever-growing video game map atlas in existence, nor its mappers and friends that support true authenticity, aesthetic, and charm, from all aspects of VGMaps, especially the basics, we've completely grown to know and love!
To emphasize the support from us, never give up and never stop fighting and protecting our cause and purpose. And keep your backups thriving, just in case, to protect all of it. You never know, but it never hurts to anticipate and keep everything safe.
Mappers will always keep on contributing to the ever-continuing effort, and however the good word is spread, VGMaps will always continue to live and thrive!
Clearly, those that try to claim otherwise lack talent, and they should've known better than that. Their knock-offs' shoddy qualities are truly unworthy. And, whatever propaganda they think is "right" to claim and smear against you are pure LIES. None of what they mentioned has anything to do with whatever they try to pin you on whatsoever. It'll only ends up giving them more trouble than they are trying to create it against you. All that'll backfire on them badly.
Whatever attention they'll try to take, we'll refuse it and keep on ignoring them. You couldn't have put your advice more fittingly!
We don't give fakers what they want! No way!
Nevertheless, plenty of us stand with VGMaps and all of its preservation efforts across gaming and mapping history, and more will join in as we keep on going! We keep on mapping!
Once again, Jon, everyone that truly believes VGMaps.com is the original real deal is with you ALL THE WAY. Never forget that.
You've got plenty more friends than "enemies", and your family's with you, too, even your brother.
No falsified knock-off nor inhumane mockery of VGMaps is gonna tear down the good name of the largest, ever-growing video game map atlas in existence, nor its mappers and friends that support true authenticity, aesthetic, and charm, from all aspects of VGMaps, especially the basics, we've completely grown to know and love!
To emphasize the support from us, never give up and never stop fighting and protecting our cause and purpose. And keep your backups thriving, just in case, to protect all of it. You never know, but it never hurts to anticipate and keep everything safe.
Mappers will always keep on contributing to the ever-continuing effort, and however the good word is spread, VGMaps will always continue to live and thrive!
Clearly, those that try to claim otherwise lack talent, and they should've known better than that. Their knock-offs' shoddy qualities are truly unworthy. And, whatever propaganda they think is "right" to claim and smear against you are pure LIES. None of what they mentioned has anything to do with whatever they try to pin you on whatsoever. It'll only ends up giving them more trouble than they are trying to create it against you. All that'll backfire on them badly.
Whatever attention they'll try to take, we'll refuse it and keep on ignoring them. You couldn't have put your advice more fittingly!
We don't give fakers what they want! No way!Nevertheless, plenty of us stand with VGMaps and all of its preservation efforts across gaming and mapping history, and more will join in as we keep on going! We keep on mapping!
Once again, Jon, everyone that truly believes VGMaps.com is the original real deal is with you ALL THE WAY. Never forget that.
28
VGMaps Social Board / Re: External site using VGMaps content?
« Last post by JonLeung on December 30, 2025, 03:28:33 pm »Hi everyone, Jonathan Leung here (or "JonLeung" or "JonLeung1"), the guy who created, has always owned, and has always run and put up the content for the original "VGMaps.com: The Video Game Atlas" since the beginning back in May 2002, and still owning and running it today, and still intending to do so for the foreseeable future.
(I saw when this topic was posted in the forums but I was busy with other things at the time, and then there was Christmas stuff, so I haven't had a chance to respond in the forums until now.)
This is my word on the matter.
Yes, I have indeed known about "Better VGMaps" for a while now, since probably 2023. I have also occasionally responded to others' emails (from concerned and curious mappers) during that time, and there was a brief discussion on the VGMaps Discord server earlier.
The short answer is, as has been stated earlier by others, "Better VGMaps" is a knock-off site. It has no affiliation with my VGMaps.com: The Video Game Atlas. "Better VGMaps" has very clearly harvested the content from VGMaps.com, without my permission. I was not informed of its creation by its creator, and all the mappers that I have talked to about this also say they did not hear from "Better VGMaps", nor gave them permission to use their maps on that site. Attempts to communicate with them have been fruitless.
If you hear only one thing from me about this, I would say, do not give "Better VGMaps" any attention. Why go there anyway? VGMaps.com still has more content, as "Better VGMaps" hasn't harvested many of the obscure platforms yet, and they don't keep up with the updates as I put them up. So don't bother with them; they don't deserve it.
...
To elaborate if you want a longer answer: It is ridiculous, and I have indeed attempted to get them taken down. I was successful at knocking them down, twice, through DMCA takedowns when it was at other URLs. But it resurfaced. It was at another site before, maybe a couple times, then took a .ru domain, and now it's at .de. When attempting to take it down again, I got some notification (the only communication I've gotten from them) about legal action if I tried to disrupt their "business" again. Now, I wasn't put off by this; I've got some stuff prepared if it comes to that, and am always amassing more proof. I will not say what I am specifically doing about that at the moment, but you would think that over 23½ years of being on the Internet, as thankfully archived by The Internet Archive Wayback Machine at https://web.archive.org/web/20020301000000*/vgmaps.com, and other longtime references like these forums, that have existed long before that knock-off first appeared, would already be plenty of evidence as to which is the original.
But that's if legal action needs to be taken. I'm thinking that "Better VGMaps" might just go away eventually if people don't give them attention.
That's actually why I didn't mention it in the forums... it's like the "Streisand Effect" (so named after singer/actress Barbra Streisand didn't like someone taking pictures of the California coastline to document coastal erosion, which ended up including photos of her residence - and when she told everyone "don't look at my house", inevitably, everyone who heard that got curious and looked at her house, so she would've been better off not saying anything in the first place), so, I figure, there's no point for me to mention it if it's only going to give them the attention they are probably seeking.
Seriously, someone that's so lazy as to use AI to generate images and blurbs including cheesy "testimonials" is bound to eventually get bored/tired of any actual work of maintaining and updating it, if that's what they actually want to do. What is their aim, anyway? Is it really someone that wants to replace VGMaps.com? Would they actually want to do the work that it takes to accept others' submissions, sort them out, upload them, etc.? Or maybe they just don't care about doing updates, they just want to have enough to appear to make my site redundant... but that's not going to happen, as I own VGMaps.com - and now other variations that direct to the .com URL - and I don't plan on letting them go. Why would I? And I certainly wouldn't bow to someone just taking maps that others originally or only intended for my VGMaps.com.
Whatever they're doing, they are clearly antagonistic towards me. I haven't made many maps myself, but the ones that I have, they've either removed them, or have reattributed them or replaced them with others. For example, my Maniac Mansion (NES) map is no longer there, and my maps for Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES) and The Legend Of Zelda: A Link To The Past (Super NES) have been replaced with Rick Bruns's maps. Clearly they're just removing my work in particular if they think I would use them as evidence against them in some legal action. If anything, the specific scrubbing and redaction of just me but not others makes them look more suspicious (as if it wasn't bad enough already) to anyone with common sense.
Earlier, when my maps were still on "Better VGMaps", credit for them was given instead to "Climate Change". I don't get what that's about. Maybe they think I'm a joke, and think climate change is a joke, though it wouldn't surprise me if they had "climate change-denial" levels of idiocy...
They're "biting the hand that feeds them". If they did take me down - which they wouldn't, but if that is their aim, that I would somehow give up on this, so that they think they lay claim to the catalogue of maps and replace VGMaps.com - I don't imagine that they would do the work necessary to accept and sort out new submissions (it's actually more work than you might think), and then the video game mapping world would be worse off. Not to toot my own horn, but come on.
There's lots I could speculate about why they are doing it or why they don't do it this other way, but I don't want to give them any ideas on making it "better". But, hey, they think they know "better" anyway, don't they?
The level of audacity reminds me a lot of someone who I called out many years ago (those who have long been in the VGMaps.com community might know who I'm talking about) for similar levels of digital kleptomania, and that makes me wonder if it's the same person. Other than that, I have no other "enemies", and don't understand how I would have made any more. There are a lot of stupid people on the Internet that clearly need to get out more to see how real people behave. I mean, we're talking about 17 or 18 years ago. If it is the same person, wow, they really need to get a life; they're old enough to know better. If it's not the same person, that's even more messed up, because I don't get how I could make enemies by... making a web site hosting video game maps? I don't think I've done anything with YouTube or anything with social media to make enemies. I've disagreed with some people on social media over stuff, including political stuff that I probably didn't need to fall into the rage bait for, but those were usually brief occurrences that I can't imagine someone being so mad about it to then copy my web site and maintain it for over two years in some weird roundabout retaliation... it doesn't make sense. All I know is that they are messed up.
If people are hearing about "Better VGMaps" more than VGMaps, maybe "Better VGMaps" is actually better at actively posting about it. As I've found when randomly Googling "VGMaps" sometimes, posts on random forums will be like "hey, check out these maps from (whatever game)" and link to them on "Better VGMaps". When that happens, I usually give them the benefit of the doubt (as it might not NECESSARILY be "Better VGMaps" themselves), and I register just to post and point out that VGMaps.com is the original. When I do, people often respond (whether the original poster or others) and are quite understanding about which is the real deal and which is the knock-off site. Still, the links are out there. Which is a reminder that I should be talking about VGMaps.com more on social media... I'm on X/Bluesky/Facebook too much as it is, but I post about random geeky stuff when I ought to be mentioning VGMaps.com... or working on YouTube videos, which I could also mention VGMaps.com more in. (I had a whole blurb about my "JonLeung1" YouTube channel here, but I deleted it as that could be saved for another time...)
...
So, to wrap this up... Though I have concerns, I'm not worried, as I am confident that VGMaps.com would win over "Better VGMaps" if there was any kind of legal motion. I should take more effort in promoting this, the original VGMaps.com, and I fully expect that "Better VGMaps" will either give up, or keep burning through their resources, but to what end? VGMaps.com is still going to be here, if I have anything to say about it.
Again, my suggestion is to not bring up "Better VGMaps". If someone else does, just kindly explain that VGMaps.com is the original, and actually better.
And that is my word on the matter.
(I saw when this topic was posted in the forums but I was busy with other things at the time, and then there was Christmas stuff, so I haven't had a chance to respond in the forums until now.)
This is my word on the matter.
Yes, I have indeed known about "Better VGMaps" for a while now, since probably 2023. I have also occasionally responded to others' emails (from concerned and curious mappers) during that time, and there was a brief discussion on the VGMaps Discord server earlier.
The short answer is, as has been stated earlier by others, "Better VGMaps" is a knock-off site. It has no affiliation with my VGMaps.com: The Video Game Atlas. "Better VGMaps" has very clearly harvested the content from VGMaps.com, without my permission. I was not informed of its creation by its creator, and all the mappers that I have talked to about this also say they did not hear from "Better VGMaps", nor gave them permission to use their maps on that site. Attempts to communicate with them have been fruitless.
If you hear only one thing from me about this, I would say, do not give "Better VGMaps" any attention. Why go there anyway? VGMaps.com still has more content, as "Better VGMaps" hasn't harvested many of the obscure platforms yet, and they don't keep up with the updates as I put them up. So don't bother with them; they don't deserve it.
...
To elaborate if you want a longer answer: It is ridiculous, and I have indeed attempted to get them taken down. I was successful at knocking them down, twice, through DMCA takedowns when it was at other URLs. But it resurfaced. It was at another site before, maybe a couple times, then took a .ru domain, and now it's at .de. When attempting to take it down again, I got some notification (the only communication I've gotten from them) about legal action if I tried to disrupt their "business" again. Now, I wasn't put off by this; I've got some stuff prepared if it comes to that, and am always amassing more proof. I will not say what I am specifically doing about that at the moment, but you would think that over 23½ years of being on the Internet, as thankfully archived by The Internet Archive Wayback Machine at https://web.archive.org/web/20020301000000*/vgmaps.com, and other longtime references like these forums, that have existed long before that knock-off first appeared, would already be plenty of evidence as to which is the original.
But that's if legal action needs to be taken. I'm thinking that "Better VGMaps" might just go away eventually if people don't give them attention.
That's actually why I didn't mention it in the forums... it's like the "Streisand Effect" (so named after singer/actress Barbra Streisand didn't like someone taking pictures of the California coastline to document coastal erosion, which ended up including photos of her residence - and when she told everyone "don't look at my house", inevitably, everyone who heard that got curious and looked at her house, so she would've been better off not saying anything in the first place), so, I figure, there's no point for me to mention it if it's only going to give them the attention they are probably seeking.
Seriously, someone that's so lazy as to use AI to generate images and blurbs including cheesy "testimonials" is bound to eventually get bored/tired of any actual work of maintaining and updating it, if that's what they actually want to do. What is their aim, anyway? Is it really someone that wants to replace VGMaps.com? Would they actually want to do the work that it takes to accept others' submissions, sort them out, upload them, etc.? Or maybe they just don't care about doing updates, they just want to have enough to appear to make my site redundant... but that's not going to happen, as I own VGMaps.com - and now other variations that direct to the .com URL - and I don't plan on letting them go. Why would I? And I certainly wouldn't bow to someone just taking maps that others originally or only intended for my VGMaps.com.
Whatever they're doing, they are clearly antagonistic towards me. I haven't made many maps myself, but the ones that I have, they've either removed them, or have reattributed them or replaced them with others. For example, my Maniac Mansion (NES) map is no longer there, and my maps for Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES) and The Legend Of Zelda: A Link To The Past (Super NES) have been replaced with Rick Bruns's maps. Clearly they're just removing my work in particular if they think I would use them as evidence against them in some legal action. If anything, the specific scrubbing and redaction of just me but not others makes them look more suspicious (as if it wasn't bad enough already) to anyone with common sense.
Earlier, when my maps were still on "Better VGMaps", credit for them was given instead to "Climate Change". I don't get what that's about. Maybe they think I'm a joke, and think climate change is a joke, though it wouldn't surprise me if they had "climate change-denial" levels of idiocy...
They're "biting the hand that feeds them". If they did take me down - which they wouldn't, but if that is their aim, that I would somehow give up on this, so that they think they lay claim to the catalogue of maps and replace VGMaps.com - I don't imagine that they would do the work necessary to accept and sort out new submissions (it's actually more work than you might think), and then the video game mapping world would be worse off. Not to toot my own horn, but come on.
There's lots I could speculate about why they are doing it or why they don't do it this other way, but I don't want to give them any ideas on making it "better". But, hey, they think they know "better" anyway, don't they?
The level of audacity reminds me a lot of someone who I called out many years ago (those who have long been in the VGMaps.com community might know who I'm talking about) for similar levels of digital kleptomania, and that makes me wonder if it's the same person. Other than that, I have no other "enemies", and don't understand how I would have made any more. There are a lot of stupid people on the Internet that clearly need to get out more to see how real people behave. I mean, we're talking about 17 or 18 years ago. If it is the same person, wow, they really need to get a life; they're old enough to know better. If it's not the same person, that's even more messed up, because I don't get how I could make enemies by... making a web site hosting video game maps? I don't think I've done anything with YouTube or anything with social media to make enemies. I've disagreed with some people on social media over stuff, including political stuff that I probably didn't need to fall into the rage bait for, but those were usually brief occurrences that I can't imagine someone being so mad about it to then copy my web site and maintain it for over two years in some weird roundabout retaliation... it doesn't make sense. All I know is that they are messed up.
If people are hearing about "Better VGMaps" more than VGMaps, maybe "Better VGMaps" is actually better at actively posting about it. As I've found when randomly Googling "VGMaps" sometimes, posts on random forums will be like "hey, check out these maps from (whatever game)" and link to them on "Better VGMaps". When that happens, I usually give them the benefit of the doubt (as it might not NECESSARILY be "Better VGMaps" themselves), and I register just to post and point out that VGMaps.com is the original. When I do, people often respond (whether the original poster or others) and are quite understanding about which is the real deal and which is the knock-off site. Still, the links are out there. Which is a reminder that I should be talking about VGMaps.com more on social media... I'm on X/Bluesky/Facebook too much as it is, but I post about random geeky stuff when I ought to be mentioning VGMaps.com... or working on YouTube videos, which I could also mention VGMaps.com more in. (I had a whole blurb about my "JonLeung1" YouTube channel here, but I deleted it as that could be saved for another time...)
...
So, to wrap this up... Though I have concerns, I'm not worried, as I am confident that VGMaps.com would win over "Better VGMaps" if there was any kind of legal motion. I should take more effort in promoting this, the original VGMaps.com, and I fully expect that "Better VGMaps" will either give up, or keep burning through their resources, but to what end? VGMaps.com is still going to be here, if I have anything to say about it.
Again, my suggestion is to not bring up "Better VGMaps". If someone else does, just kindly explain that VGMaps.com is the original, and actually better.
And that is my word on the matter.
29
Gaming / 3D Sonic Stage Lengths, in square kilometers...
« Last post by Cyartog959 on December 30, 2025, 02:04:52 pm »Hey, I just had a quick thought about Sonic's 3D stages, in square kilometers.
Back at GDC, from a presentation video I was watching on YouTube, I happen to come across some interesting info about Sonic Unleashed's process and how long their levels were, before the DLC levels were included.
The GDC '09(yes, that took place years ago, but that was rather interesting, to say the least) presentation video link's here, in case you may want to watch it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHSDZQH3sgk
Tech specs speaking aside, it does give us insights on how the Hedgehog Engine, Sega's own engine created for later Sonic games, was made and how Unleashed's levels were built, along with the many challenges Sega and Sonic Team's devs faced there and then.
I understand not many of you in the VGMaps community understand much tech talk, but, I'll lay it to you simply as I can. I'll start from what I've been watching from Chapter 19 of its presentation. Find it at minute 43:46.
To be brief, at the time Unleashed was in the works, many PCs were underpowered to handle such a game that required Sonic to run at very fast speeds on long levels, made as the Day levels in that game, especially with the boost's introduction and other additional moves to get around them. The more prominent of such problems was having it run on the 360 to fit the limits in it.
To cut down on lots of computational time to work around it before launch, Sega and Sonic Team had to set up a distributed system with their arrays of PCs by the dozens linked up to the management PC and it followed up with a link to the artist's PC. Then...
Their underpowered PCs couldn't handle the workload for the game's development. So, they had to acquire new PCs with upgraded RAM to fit their texture data into their memory, install hi-performance hard disks, and compressed their light network data for optimization.
Then, just as they were about to get it on, another major problem hit them; power overload to their offices' old circuit breaker. Total darkness I'm talking about, here. Ceasing usage of their appliances wasn't just enough, too. They had but no choice but to completely upgrade their offices' power system to keep the overload from occurring again. And, of course, additional solutions to their other problems were met.
There's more info to hear in the rest of the video. Give it a good watch and listen, if you like.
Now, to the matter of 3D Sonic's stage lengths.
Sonic Unleashed stages, in that example, and talked about in that presentation video, were poised to be 5 to 20 kilometers long(NOTE: This does NOT include open world games unrelated to Sonic, nor its hi-speed platforming formulas), especially Eggmanland's Crimson Carnival, which is quite long, and from what I kinda pieced together, other later 3D Sonic games kinda cut down on their length before we had more new hardware for game development.
Sonic's 3D games have come quite long since then, and we've had much more stronger hardware that guarantees more than just breathing room for running Unleashed on PCs without lag. And, I still felt like newer 3D Sonic games should have stages longer than Unleashed, Generations, or even Forces' stages.
Regardless of their length and size, they're still fun to play through, all the same.
So, I ask you this, did you sometimes think of how long other 3D Sonic games were, in kilometers? If not, maybe give it a try in calculating them. Sure would like to know sometime soon.
Back at GDC, from a presentation video I was watching on YouTube, I happen to come across some interesting info about Sonic Unleashed's process and how long their levels were, before the DLC levels were included.
The GDC '09(yes, that took place years ago, but that was rather interesting, to say the least) presentation video link's here, in case you may want to watch it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHSDZQH3sgk
Tech specs speaking aside, it does give us insights on how the Hedgehog Engine, Sega's own engine created for later Sonic games, was made and how Unleashed's levels were built, along with the many challenges Sega and Sonic Team's devs faced there and then.
I understand not many of you in the VGMaps community understand much tech talk, but, I'll lay it to you simply as I can. I'll start from what I've been watching from Chapter 19 of its presentation. Find it at minute 43:46.
To be brief, at the time Unleashed was in the works, many PCs were underpowered to handle such a game that required Sonic to run at very fast speeds on long levels, made as the Day levels in that game, especially with the boost's introduction and other additional moves to get around them. The more prominent of such problems was having it run on the 360 to fit the limits in it.
To cut down on lots of computational time to work around it before launch, Sega and Sonic Team had to set up a distributed system with their arrays of PCs by the dozens linked up to the management PC and it followed up with a link to the artist's PC. Then...
Their underpowered PCs couldn't handle the workload for the game's development. So, they had to acquire new PCs with upgraded RAM to fit their texture data into their memory, install hi-performance hard disks, and compressed their light network data for optimization.
Then, just as they were about to get it on, another major problem hit them; power overload to their offices' old circuit breaker. Total darkness I'm talking about, here. Ceasing usage of their appliances wasn't just enough, too. They had but no choice but to completely upgrade their offices' power system to keep the overload from occurring again. And, of course, additional solutions to their other problems were met.
There's more info to hear in the rest of the video. Give it a good watch and listen, if you like.
Now, to the matter of 3D Sonic's stage lengths.
Sonic Unleashed stages, in that example, and talked about in that presentation video, were poised to be 5 to 20 kilometers long(NOTE: This does NOT include open world games unrelated to Sonic, nor its hi-speed platforming formulas), especially Eggmanland's Crimson Carnival, which is quite long, and from what I kinda pieced together, other later 3D Sonic games kinda cut down on their length before we had more new hardware for game development.
Sonic's 3D games have come quite long since then, and we've had much more stronger hardware that guarantees more than just breathing room for running Unleashed on PCs without lag. And, I still felt like newer 3D Sonic games should have stages longer than Unleashed, Generations, or even Forces' stages.
Regardless of their length and size, they're still fun to play through, all the same.
So, I ask you this, did you sometimes think of how long other 3D Sonic games were, in kilometers? If not, maybe give it a try in calculating them. Sure would like to know sometime soon.
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VGMaps Social Board / Re: External site using VGMaps content?
« Last post by mechaskrom on December 29, 2025, 11:55:49 am »They haven't contacted me about hosting my maps either. It's pretty obvious that it's an unauthorized clone of the real VGMaps.
But like FlyingArmor, I don't really care. It's very hard to control things you've uploaded online. I've found my maps on some very strange sites, some even made changes to them (e.g. removed my name) which at least Better VGMaps hasn't.
I guess the biggest problem with Better VGMaps is that it might be stealing traffic from the real VGMaps. Most people who contact me about my maps found them via Better VGMaps (I always tell them to visit the real site instead) which is a bit worrying. I wonder why Better VGMaps seems more popular in search engine results than the real VGMaps?
But like FlyingArmor, I don't really care. It's very hard to control things you've uploaded online. I've found my maps on some very strange sites, some even made changes to them (e.g. removed my name) which at least Better VGMaps hasn't.
I guess the biggest problem with Better VGMaps is that it might be stealing traffic from the real VGMaps. Most people who contact me about my maps found them via Better VGMaps (I always tell them to visit the real site instead) which is a bit worrying. I wonder why Better VGMaps seems more popular in search engine results than the real VGMaps?