VGMaps
General Boards => Maps In Progress => Topic started by: VGCartography on March 17, 2021, 02:10:22 pm
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Hello all. Longtime lurker. My first submissions for Tomba and Vagrant Story on PSX went live yesterday.
https://vgmaps.com/Atlas/PSX/index.htm#Tomba
https://vgmaps.com/Atlas/PSX/index.htm#VagrantStory
I've always liked game visualizations/infographics and trying to summarize a game as succinctly as possible, in map form or videos or whatever. I have a full set of Silent Hill maps similar to VS I need to create upload-ready versions of, and am midway through the original Tomb Raider.
I've always loved the maps from the likes of FlyingArmor and StarFighters76 so would love to provide some high quality content for the PS1 section. I tend to post regular updates on Twitter - https://twitter.com/hatersgonnahate and use the maps on my Youtube channel. Hope to have plenty more submissions!
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Wow, 3D content. Very great that such games get maps now. Thank you very much.
I have been absent for some years. What kind of tools would I need to be able to fly around in the 3D geometry of a game? Is it game-specific or is there something that I could use for, e.g., every PS1 game because it depends on the emulator?
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In my case, I am using custom javascript tools to look at the level data outside of the game itself. For example, for VS someone has open-source tool to look at individual rooms if you have a copy of the game: https://github.com/morris/vstools
I loaded up each room one by one, got a good image of it, then composited the levels together in photoshop. It's imperfect but better than using screenshots or something in an emulator because it can render the assets and high resolution. Silent Hill was a similar process (https://www.moddb.com/downloads/silent-hill-level-viewer-202). A lot of these games have small projects like this devoted to unpacking them, and I have helped with some and leveraged others.
For Tomba, same thing - level geometry extraction, extracted objects, arranged objects (platforms, swing poles, etc) in Blender and exported that base layer, then added the sprite elements like items etc. in photoshop. I actualy tried using emulator screenshots for this before putting more work in, and it looked pretty awful.
For Tomb Raider, I've been working on a code submission to noclip.website that can extract the data from BIN files and render them there. Plan on TR2 and 3 also.
In terms of games that I don't currently have a good path forward, Metal Gear Solid and Mega Man Legends are high on my list but I haven't found good projects or documentation about their file formats yet, so TBD.
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Thank you for the thorough explanation. So it requires individual understanding of the level data format which a game uses.
Seeing the noclip.website, I really get interest to understanding what's going on there. The size of each individual game folder's program files in the noclip source repository (https://github.com/magcius/noclip.website/tree/master/src) still is immense at first sight but compared to starting from scratch with a complete viewer it might actually be feasible.
I will have a look at it, maybe first experimenting with a game for which the level data format is known.
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noclip has a discord where the main author Jasper is pretty active/helpful. You basically need to write the translation piece between raw data and something you can feed to his basic rendering components. Since it has everything from PS2 to N64, there isn't a ton of shared code across games. But I don't know how much easier learning all that is vs. standing up a simple ThreeJS viewer yourself or something - I've found it difficult and Tomb Raider is a well-documented game in terms of data formats. I have the geom rendering in the app but haven't figured out proper way to load textures and haven't had a good chance to dive into it again.
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I've been sharing classic Tomb Raider maps as I assemble them. Most are on my Twitter feed, a couple examples:
https://twitter.com/hatersgonnahate/status/1377198997740347393 - TR2 - 40 Fathoms
https://twitter.com/hatersgonnahate/status/1376192309650411523 - TR - Palace Midas
The isometric maps for TR1 are done but need cleanup pass and labels etc. Haven't finished topdown map for 2/3 yet but maybe ready in a week or two.
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Finished and submitted TR maps to the site! I also used the base maps to make this Youtube video breaking down the parts of various levels + some infographics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiToc0SYkds
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I love seeing 3d maps rendered in an isometric perspective like this, even though they're not always easily "readable" because rooms will overlap with one another and ceiling geometry is sometimes visible.
Also, because of the primitive graphics of the game, it's not always easy to tell where edges are located. When older 3D games are rendered like this, I've always wondered how much better/worse it would look with a visible outline around edges.
Thank you for such an amazing video, and I'm glad that you'll be making maps for the next two games as well.
Can't wait to check out the maps by myself!
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Tomb Raider maps (http://vgmaps.com/Atlas/PSX/index.htm#TombRaider) are up now! Always appreciate maps of 3D games.
As I told VGCartography, I didn't really get into the Tomb Raider series until Tomb Raider: Legend (which to my understanding is the first reboot) so these OG Lara Croft adventures are definitely fascinating even without nostalgia, at least for me. I have played Tomb Raider: Anniversary, which is a remake of this one, but that was a while ago. One of the very few things I do remember about it is that there is a dinosaur, probably a T. Rex, which I see is here in the Lost Valley. Can't go wrong with dinosaurs!
Anyway, thanks again, VGCartography!
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I love seeing 3d maps rendered in an isometric perspective like this, even though they're not always easily "readable" because rooms will overlap with one another and ceiling geometry is sometimes visible.
Also, because of the primitive graphics of the game, it's not always easy to tell where edges are located. When older 3D games are rendered like this, I've always wondered how much better/worse it would look with a visible outline around edges.
Thank you for such an amazing video, and I'm glad that you'll be making maps for the next two games as well.
Can't wait to check out the maps by myself!
Thanks! Yeah, I often get confused by perspective when trying to find the best angle overall for each level, reminds me of that bit in Indiana Jones 3 when the perspective shifts and he realizes he's on a bridge. Peardian's Ocarina of Time iso maps are my favorite, but TR's levels fit together a bit differently and it's difficult to separate a single room so I wasn't able to achieve that level of clarity (partially why only the overhead map parts are labeled). For TR2 and 3 with a lot more verticality, I might try separating floors a bit more and trying more severe angles maybe.
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Resident Evil (2002) maps from going for platinum recently:
https://twitter.com/hatersgonnahate/status/1409615780250066945
Want to do a bit more error checking/cleanup before I submit though.
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Metal Gear Solid is up.
https://vgmaps.com/Atlas/PSX/index.htm#MetalGearSolid
I made a short YouTube video explaining how I made it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PihXtAKtb2A
Among other things, a cleanup of Tomba and Vagrant Story along with maps for Mega Man Legends and MGS2 are in the plans. Want to revisit Tomb Raider as well.
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Is the "Escape Route" legitimately equally as long as the whole island, as seen in the whole Shadow Moses maps? I noticed the singular Escape Route map says "You must damage Liquid a certain amount in each looping section to advance", so I was wondering if there was some artistic license there on the full maps.
In any case, I think it's very neat that the game is actually very long (that is, "long" in the narrow sense, not gameplay time).
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I shortened it on the Escape Route map so it wasn't needlessly big, just a sample of each part, but the full game map I think is what the intention was. In reality it can last for a while if you have bad aim, but the cliff you end on is meant to be the same coast you originally swim up to I think.
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Just submitted a map for WILD ARMS on PS1. Was quite surprised there wasn't one already, many 2D RPGs from that era were done long ago. Unfortunately I didn't figure out a good way to extract data from the disc, so I resorted to the ol' screenshot mapping technique.
https://twitter.com/vgcartography/status/1485790802106327042?s=20&t=LiFzQ7yjtm8LOvKWhE2UEQ Here is a short timelapse doing a small portion of it. Took probably 3-4 nights a couple hours each to finish? One of my favorite games from the era.
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Your work is blowing my mind. Holy cow these PS1 maps come out looking good.
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Question about the Elw Dimension map... I've wondered for *years* if those two side islands were actually present on the map, and I'm curious as to whether what's shown in your map is all that's actually there, or if that's just all you were able to get without any sort of tools. If it's the latter, I guess some sort of "overworld walk through walls" code would be in order...
Still, nice to finally see "actual game graphics" maps for Filgaia. I'm genuinely surprised none existed until now. Good job! Heck, all of your PS1 maps are pretty dang amazing! Looking forward to seeing more of them in the future!
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Question about the Elw Dimension map... I've wondered for *years* if those two side islands were actually present on the map, and I'm curious as to whether what's shown in your map is all that's actually there, or if that's just all you were able to get without any sort of tools. If it's the latter, I guess some sort of "overworld walk through walls" code would be in order...
Still, nice to finally see "actual game graphics" maps for Filgaia. I'm genuinely surprised none existed until now. Good job! Heck, all of your PS1 maps are pretty dang amazing! Looking forward to seeing more of them in the future!
Thanks! It is indeed the latter - I couldn't find any code for walk through walls/enable plane or other tools on Elw map/etc. so I can't see those bits either! But you can open the map in-game with select and they are shown, I suspect they are there... I've never tried to hack out PS1 codes before, although I did a bit on NES/SNES back in the day. Would be a fun project, I would definitely like to improve the missing areas in the current one.
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Made an animated runthrough of a bunch of the Castlevania maps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFCkC9RUTxY
Pretty niche audience for this kind of video but it's fun to make as a flip-book through the map basically. Started on Tomb Raider II today.
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Just submitted a complete* set of maps for Spyro 1. Gonna do 2 and 3 eventually, but taking a little break from placing gems and chests for a bit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s07jI0FeQhU
Made another video, this one about Tomb Raider 2. The game was complex enough that I didn't make labeled maps, although never say never - they are layered and difficult to clearly unravel in 2D, but the video was my attempt at a "living" version. Started on TR3 as a follow up as well.
Other stuff floating around is continuing isometric maps of Vagrant Story, Xenogears, and finishing MGS2. Not sure after that... maybe a little break.
*High Caves is missing due to data error :(
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Just submitted my first hand-drawn map, for Dark Souls 1. Got a wacom cintiq 16 tablet a few weeks ago and have been learning how to tool around on it, some rough edges (literally) but it was fun to work on. Hoping to do something similar with Elden Ring and Bloodborne.
Here is a video I made walking through the map as a game summary of sorts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHfArW9zEQ4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHfArW9zEQ4)
I've also been putting together some Crash Team Racing maps for a more relaxing evening, and working on Tomb Raider III and MGS2 as well. Haven't been very motivated lately though...
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I've always wanted to see a Xenogears world map. This is excellent.
It's probably for the best that you moved Shevat over to Sargasso Point. If you left it on top of Babel Tower it would have covered up the entire thing.
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Some more things went up, for Vagrant Story (redid them in 3D) and Alone in the Dark, another drawn one.
I have a couple starter maps for Chrono Cross and Legend of Dragoon but not currently doing an organized effort to map them all yet.
(I post more regular updates in the discord channel now too)
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I see your DeviantArt gallery for Chrono Cross (https://www.deviantart.com/vgcartography/gallery/82496614/chrono-cross).
For someone who said this game isn't your favourite, you sure have done some amazing stuff with this game already. I love not only the maps but the bestiary and the various character reference things. There sure are lots of characters compared to the tight-knit group of seven from Chrono Trigger. I know I played this game once before and finished it but I barely remember any of it, unlike Chrono Trigger which is more firmly in my memory despite being longer ago. If/when the Chrono Cross map set gets complete, I might consider a replay, probably the rerelease (and I rarely replay games these days - life is too short, why not have new experiences, and my backlog is full of them).
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Haven't updated in too long, but in general..
- Submitted Metal Gear Solid and VR Missions.
- Submitted all 3 Tomb Raiders now
- Submitted Tony Hawk's Pro Skater
- Submitted Banjo Kazooie
- Submitted Super Mario 64
- Submitted Alone in the Dark
...probably others.
I am halfway (Disc 1+2) through both Final Fantasy 8 and 9, should finish them up relatively soon. Also plan on THPS2. Want to spend a little time poking at Gex 2 on PS1 also. Did about half of Mario Sunshine so far.
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Awesome to see you working on the other two Final Fantasy games for the PSX! I would've eventually gotten to FF8 if no one else had decided to take it on, but it looks like I wouldn't have to worry about it anymore. ;D
Definitely looking forward to seeing how your maps for both games turn out!
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A bunch more maps went up:
- THPS 2-4 (PS1)
- Jak and Daxter (PS2)
- MediEvil (PS1)
- MGS3
- Arkham Asylum
- Twisted Metal 1+2
- Luigi's Mansion
- Wild Arms 1+2 world maps
I need to check, there are others like Mario Sunshine that I finished but I'm not sure I submitted them here. Working on finishing MediEvil, possibly J&D (some levels are being annoying), then maybe some classic Crash Bandicoot maps.
e: Oh! I finished FF8 and half of FF9 + Legend of Dragoon also! Submitting the rest of those now!
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A good job you're doing posting maps to the atlas! I like how you were posting every single secret you have found in those games! If you're going for Crash Bandicoot maps, by all means. There's a lot more to cover.
I'd suggest Crash 1 first, then up to about Crash 3.
There's all the 5 secret courses hidden in Mario Sunshine. Those were all amazing, and challenging.
Oh! I think you missed the Observatory in 2F, from Luigi's Mansion, complete with a very cool cosmic path there. That room's not connected to the Astral Hall.
And, of course, all the boss arenas from facing all the main ghost bosses, Chauncey, Bogmire, Boolossus, even King Boo and his Bowser illusion. I think some updating is required.
Why, I know a few more games to cover, if you're up to making time for your schedule for them, that is.
- Super Magnetic Neo
- MDK 1
- MDK 2
- Fairly OddParents: Breakin' Da Rules(Console Version, GC, PS2, Xbox)
- Fairly OddParents: Shadow Showdown (Kinda curious how bigger and longer those levels are from the previous game)
- Frogger: He's Back! (PS1, PC)
- Frogger 2: Swampy's Revenge
- Frogger Beyond
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I gotta say, I am *really* impressed with your PS1 maps. It's especially awesome to see someone finally tackling FF8 and 9, and your maps are very thorough and well-made. I'm curious, though, as to why the Centra Excavation Site, from the first Laguna scenario, wasn't included... I always thought that area looked really neat, and there's a lot of little things to do there in preparation for later in the game that'd be nice to have marked on a map. (And if that was included in another map and I just missed it, I apologize in advance. :P)
Beyond that, great job. I appreciate how you even separately mapped out areas that change, such as Balamb Garden, Dollet, and Winhill; very nice touch. Looking forward to seeing the rest of FF9; that's one of my favorite games ever!
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Thanks YelseyKing. I didn't do most of the Laguna alternates yet (or the red Esthar during siege) because honestly I got a bit burnt out on FF8 and it took me a long time to finish these so I didn't have the heart to do the doubles yet. At some point I'll go back and do those and the Chocobo forests as well. I also thought about some kind of Triple Triad-themed map? Maybe the Queen or important unique cards? But I'm not sure quite what that would look like yet.
FF9 I plan to finish up early summer.
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Oh yeah, now that you mention it, I guess there are some other smaller maps you didn't do as well. (Like Tears' Point, the Sorceress Memorial, and the Lunatic Pandora Lab, for instance.) I guess just figured you were sticking to larger areas, and the Centra Excavation Site was the only one of size I noticed was missing. As for the Triple Triad map... that'd be neat. It's always kind of a pain trying to remember who has what rare card, so a handy map would certainly help.
Also, I love the Wild Arms 2 world map. I never realized just how *weird* that game's world looked. That is some very... interesting... geography. :P
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I am still alive.
There's a bunch of PS1 games waiting to be mapped, but I can't pick one to focus on. The epsxe emulator fork that can take 3D screenshots has been revolutionary - no more extracting and converting data to OBJs, instead can just rip them straight from gameplay. It isn't always easy or pretty (Syphon Filter for example comes out with stretched axis due to perspective that requires correction), and you will be collecting portions of the level mesh from multiple screenshots and must rotate and move them to recreate the whole thing, but for most games it isn't as bad as it sounds. I've done at least the first level in this fashion for:
- Ape Escape
- Syphon Filter
- Toy Story 2
- Armored Core
- Gex 2
- Legend of Legaia
- Tail Concerto
- Wild Arms 2
...however, Spyro 2 and some Crash levels are the only thing I've progressed much further on. With infinite time, it would be fun to grab them all.
I still haven't done disc 4 of FF9 or a bunch of Legend of Dragoon, need to get back in the mood for screenshot maps like that.
There's also a PCSX2 fork now that can do similar things with PS2 levels! https://github.com/scurest/pcsx2/releases/tag/latest-3d-screenshot
PS2 games have much higher poly counts obviously, more transparency and other lighting effects to remove and usually require culling polygons and scaling axes again to remove distortion, but I got workable level models from Devil May Cry 1, Tomb Raider 6 and Shadow of the Colossus without too much fuss. There's a lot of potentially cool maps for the PS2 library as well.
Otherwise, I drew some world maps for Dark Souls 3, Bloodborne and Sekiro that I'm pretty proud of. Here's the Sekiro one: https://www.deviantart.com/vgcartography/art/Sekiro-Illustrated-World-Map-1128031286
I'm working on improving my coloring skills, once again I have a long list of games I'd love to draw like this but precious little time to do it. I've been making videos for youtube with these maps basically drawing little arrows on them that show the basic route through the games, it would be fun to see other people try similar videos like this with VGMaps collection. I make them with powerpoint. @NESAtlas on youtube has some neat ones in a similar vein with a let's play of the game inlaid to a larger map of the level/world. It also functions to get more eyes on some of the maps.
Anyway, hopefully I can submit Spyro 2 in the next month or so.
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I am still alive.
There's a bunch of PS1 games waiting to be mapped, but I can't pick one to focus on. The epsxe emulator fork that can take 3D screenshots has been revolutionary - no more extracting and converting data to OBJs, instead can just rip them straight from gameplay. It isn't always easy or pretty (Syphon Filter for example comes out with stretched axis due to perspective that requires correction), and you will be collecting portions of the level mesh from multiple screenshots and must rotate and move them to recreate the whole thing, but for most games it isn't as bad as it sounds. I've done at least the first level in this fashion for:
- Ape Escape
- Syphon Filter
- Toy Story 2
- Armored Core
- Gex 2
- Legend of Legaia
- Tail Concerto
- Wild Arms 2
...however, Spyro 2 and some Crash levels are the only thing I've progressed much further on. With infinite time, it would be fun to grab them all.
I still haven't done disc 4 of FF9 or a bunch of Legend of Dragoon, need to get back in the mood for screenshot maps like that.
There's also a PCSX2 fork now that can do similar things with PS2 levels! https://github.com/scurest/pcsx2/releases/tag/latest-3d-screenshot
PS2 games have much higher poly counts obviously, more transparency and other lighting effects to remove and usually require culling polygons and scaling axes again to remove distortion, but I got workable level models from Devil May Cry 1, Tomb Raider 6 and Shadow of the Colossus without too much fuss. There's a lot of potentially cool maps for the PS2 library as well.
Good to hear from you after your silent absence around here. Kinda worried me a bit.
Your process with that emulator fork you spoke of sure sounds like it could streamline the process of mapping PS1 games... but by how much, I don't know.
Feeling a bit indecisive about which game to focus mapping? Well, I may provide a recommendation or two.
I feel "Toy Story 2" is a fine choice, for I've already beaten that PS1 version with everything collected. The N64, almost the same, but didn't think of having 100% there and then. I was only focusing on having my good time exploring the levels and trying to get to the end. The bosses were mostly original, save for few adapted from the movie, and I enjoyed beating each and every one.
Sure, its not in your list, but, my second recommendation is "SpongeBob SquarePants: Supersponge", a fine side-scroller for the world-famous sponge himself in his game and animation careers.
Though everything's made in 3D, the levels were fashioned in a 2D state. Had fun with it, but I honestly did struggle much to complete everything 100%, including having to keep all 100 Golden Spatulas before reaching the end of any level in Chapter 5 and collecting all the decorations with tokens obtained from all the bonus carnival levels to decorate for Patrick's birthday. Enjoyed some key nods from past episodes, alongside the voice cast reprising their roles as their characters... well, almost all.
Those are only my recommendations.
Liked seeing your well-made maps so far, and I'm looking forward to seeing some more soon.
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There's a bunch of PS1 games waiting to be mapped, but I can't pick one to focus on. The epsxe emulator fork that can take 3D screenshots has been revolutionary - no more extracting and converting data to OBJs, instead can just rip them straight from gameplay. It isn't always easy or pretty (Syphon Filter for example comes out with stretched axis due to perspective that requires correction), and you will be collecting portions of the level mesh from multiple screenshots and must rotate and move them to recreate the whole thing, but for most games it isn't as bad as it sounds. I've done at least the first level in this fashion for:
- Ape Escape
- Syphon Filter
- Toy Story 2
- Armored Core
- Gex 2
- Legend of Legaia
- Tail Concerto
- Wild Arms 2
...however, Spyro 2 and some Crash levels are the only thing I've progressed much further on. With infinite time, it would be fun to grab them all.
I still haven't done disc 4 of FF9 or a bunch of Legend of Dragoon, need to get back in the mood for screenshot maps like that.
If not Final Fantasy IX or Legend Of Dragoon, then Legend Of Legaia and Wild Arms 2 are my votes, if you are polling. I'm not sure I've ever heard of Tail Concerto, but that looks really cute and cool!
But honestly, I'd be super happy to publish anything you contribute to VGMaps, whether polygonal or hand-drawn, as you excel at both, which are less common skills around here, and result in unique maps. While I definitely have a soft spot for 2D 8-bit and 16-bit games, one person's map would probably look a lot like any other's map of the same area, if done properly, other than arrangement of separate rooms, or additions like labels. But with 3D games there's always the choice of perspective, and other decisions like how to handle the anti-aliasing of textures, etc. The PlayStation atlas page could always use more maps in general, regardless of the number of dimensions.
Looking forward to whatever you submit!